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Archives > Stuff 2002:

Stuff Archive - Legal Marijuana

Heir of Silence - 06 Nov 2002 11:08 pm
Post subject: Legal Marijuana

As you may or may not know, Nevada has been considering legalizing marijuana possession under 3 oz (which is quite a significant amount to possess at one time anyway). Without starting any flame wars, what do you think of this? Do you think pot is dangerous, or no worse than alcohol? Pot

or Pot

Vincent - 06 Nov 2002 11:10 pm
Post subject:

well...alchohol is legal, and so is nicotine and caffeine. its not anymore harmful than either of those, plus its a freakin' plant.

Heir of Silence - 06 Nov 2002 11:15 pm
Post subject:

To keep it an even playing field....Sure, it's a plant...so are opium plants, coca plants/leaves, and whatever plant they use to make heroin out of

Vincent - 06 Nov 2002 11:19 pm
Post subject:

but heroin has to go thru all kinds of crap before its useable. marijuana (i might be wrong) goes through a similar proccess to tobacco before it can be used

Heir of Silence - 06 Nov 2002 11:21 pm
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Basically. Pick off the leaves, grind it up or whatnot, roll up and smoke.

Vincent - 06 Nov 2002 11:24 pm
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i'd imagine it has to be dried first....so then its kinda like raisins....you wanna make raisin illegal too??

Hei Feng - 06 Nov 2002 11:33 pm
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Last thing I need is for a bunch of potheads to go around acting like idiots around town. Seriously. Things are illegal for a reason. We don't live in Europe, and I hope the people in Nevada enjoy their gambling, whoring, and smoking.

Heir of Silence - 06 Nov 2002 11:46 pm
Post subject:

I find that last remark kind of silly. We already have the same amount of people acting stupid due to alcohol....also, you've heard of violent drunks, but have you ever heard of violent stoned people? It just doesn't happen....most people who would smoke weed already do, anyhow.

DeathscytheX - 07 Nov 2002 12:04 am
Post subject:

Thats where u are incorrect.

Alcohol is damaging on the liver.. yeah it makes people stupid.. but they do pay the price the next day.

Weed is much more harmful.. it kills your brain and 1 joint = 7 packs of cigs.. very very bad. plus that awful second hand smoke has some effect on people around the smoker... i mean my head hurts and crap like that.. i can deal with cig smoke but not pot.

true being drunk can be compared to being high.. but how much more easier is it to conseal a joint than it is a beverage? this easier accessabilty would mean people getting high more often than people that get drunk. plus we dont need to double the trouble of stupid people anywayz.. i mean its bad enough we have drunks on the road lets just double it with stone heads eh? yeah brilliant.

if this was to ever become legal id place unfairly high taxes so big on it that would make cigs look like they come out of gumball machines.

Vincent - 07 Nov 2002 12:46 am
Post subject:

yeah, i don't know if this makes sense but i don't want pot be illegal nor legal. just...not illegal @_@ some of the smartest people i've known were pot heads so i don't really know the affects. that and i've never been around the stuff my whole life.

Eli - 07 Nov 2002 12:53 am
Post subject:

I've been arund it quite abit...it isnt AS bad as DX makes it seem...but then again it does affect those around the smoker more than 2nd hand cig smoke, i have mixed feelings abotu this...they COULD legalize it but of course there would be ALOT of restrictions and strist rules about it so it isnt like it would get too out of hand, but then again it could simply because of the amount of users, because weed is a downer its less likely someones going to try and drive when they are high, but it DOES happen, and is just as dangerous as alcohol, simply because people are ignorant and stupid. I personally thinmit should NOT be legalized just to be on the safe side, the ppl that are going to fight this topic to the death about legalizing it are usually the ppl who are ignorant of the real POSSIBLE dangers, because i know ALOT of ppl that will argue it blindly. Better safe than sorry, no?

Mecca - 07 Nov 2002 01:29 am
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It doesn't matter, they're never going to legalize it. For the first few years, it would be such a bad problem. It would lead to all these other global drug problems. Trust me, you don't want them to legalize it. I think it would make America's global status just that much worse. I don't really think they should enforce it too much, there are so many more important things they could be spending the time and resources on.

Eli - 07 Nov 2002 02:04 am
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agreed, those who are going to do it already do, those who dont, wont and never will. Spend more tax dollars on more important things.

Kaede - 07 Nov 2002 03:34 am
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One thing that I thought of are the drug dealers of marijuana...kinda like speakeasys during the Roaring 20s. I don't know how that comes into picture, but I suppose that it's insane profit?

Eli - 07 Nov 2002 03:37 am
Post subject:

oh god yes...imagine what the cost of pot would be if it was sold legally in stores...20-23$ a carton of marlboros now...about 30-45$ for pot @_@

Vincent - 07 Nov 2002 08:36 am
Post subject:

i just don't think it'll work until Americans work on their attitude....

Kiki - 07 Nov 2002 08:54 am
Post subject:

My friend is actually writing a book with interviews of people on this subject. I say legalize it, regulate it, and make sure kiddies aren't actually getting dangerous stuff(well, more dangerous than marijuanna) Like the problem with ecstasy is that people think they're taking it but they actually have speed, 'cause you can't tell the difference apparently, and by taking speed as ecstasy they kill themselves. Ecstasy alone can't kill you. So yah, legalize the pot, make paper out of hemp, save hundreds of acres of trees to save our atmosphere, and keep kids off the street and out of the way for killing each other by selling it in specialized stores at a certain legalized age, and at a certain level of the stuff.

Cloud - 07 Nov 2002 10:00 am
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this is from time magazine.

negative effects

brain causes changes in brain chemistry. it hinders the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, a chemical that triggers various types of signals throughout the nervous system

mood and behavior leads to difficulty in concentration, attention to detail and learning new, comlex information. also impairs time perception as well as certain aspects of memory-at least in the short term

heart increases the work of the heart. the changes in heart rate and blood pressure are the same as those found in a person under high stress

lungs is more irritating to (50% more tar than tobacco) and has a greater effect on the upper airways (sinuses and larynx) than tobacco. May cause lung, head and neck cancer

sexual performance may reduce the number and quality of sperm and damage their mobility, possibly affecting fertility

blood flow decreases blood flow to the limbs, which in extremem cases may require amputation

positive effects

pain increases sense of euphoria. may help minimize pain from migraine headaches and from the spread of cancer

eyes reduces intraocular pressure; helping those afflicted with glaucoma

spasticity believed to help calm spasms from spinal cord injury, MS and possibly epilepsy. in the early 1900s, cannabis tinctures were marketed as antispasmodics

stomach helps restore appetite in people who have lost weight from cancer or AIDS

nausea combats nausea from chemotherapy and helps minimize vomitting

overall..i think it's not worth it..

Azrael - 07 Nov 2002 10:23 am
Post subject:

Just like anything else, weed can be used for good or evil, or just for fun. I personally think it should be legal though. You know how much it costs per year to support an inmate? Last time I checked, it's about $30,000. There are millions of people in jail just for growing a plant that are costing the government huge amounts of money. If it was legal, not only would this drain on our tax money be relieved, but there would be a new, huge industry contributing money to our government. Also, instead of the profit going to some unknown person with possible terrorist ties, it would go to big companies or private businesses, and you wouldn't have to worry about what other drugs someone might have mixed in with your dime bag. Last thing: if you put a kid in jail who's never commited a crime in his life except for having a sack of weed at the wrong time, you take a normal, relatively harmless citizen and create a threat to society.

So yeah, I think it should be legalized.

Guyver - 07 Nov 2002 10:30 am
Post subject:

have u had a friend O.D on weed.

not sumthing pleasent.
a lot of my m8's really screw them selves over on weed.

so it should stay illegal.
also alcohol is a drug, but it is already legal so u cant bann it.
y add 2 the problem that is already their

Azrael - 07 Nov 2002 10:35 am
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Umm...not saying you're lying, but it's really, really hard to O.D. on weed. Like, almost impossible. Your friend must have been a real pro.

Or maybe someone laced it.

Guyver - 07 Nov 2002 10:40 am
Post subject:

he woke iup in hostital with no memory of the details,
he stunk off skunk and looked as if he had died.

it may not b an o d but i dont no what else 2 call it

Amadeus - 07 Nov 2002 12:20 pm
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Guyver's point is possibly the main reason why I think pot should stay illegal - ok, maybe it would be the people's choice and there would be fewer people in prison etc if it was legal, but there would also be many younger fatalities etc. Either way, if people want to smoke pot then they will, even if it is illegal, just like if people want to drink underage or have underage sex, they will do it. It seems slightly silly to me that there are centres to give teenagers sex advice and hand out free condoms etc yet there are not so many dealing with drugs. Maybe the answer is to build more of these centres, so that if people decide or are forced to break the law, they have somewhere to go that doesn't come with an 'inmate' tag. One has to remember that it isn't always the person's fault if they get caught up in underage/illegal drugs/smoking/sex, and so there should be schemes to help them. Of course, drug dealing is a completely different issue, and it's the dealers that the police are really interested in, not Jimmy teenager who was feeling really down one day so decided to have a drag but then became addicted/threatened so he carried on.

Guyver - 07 Nov 2002 12:25 pm
Post subject:

this is a very contrversial issue.
i c ur point and it is very good, also but then if weed is made legal y not H
that is what will eventually happen.

also if it was legalised then dealers will b pissed as it would b sold in shops.
another issue is prostition, i mean y not, but if it were legal then i can cause probs, weed is the same there are a lot of factors 2 look at, but the main is how it will affect us and the children.

i think if it is legal then it should b only 4 home use

Amadeus - 07 Nov 2002 12:40 pm
Post subject:

Heroin would never be legalised because it is a Class A drug; one tablet can kill you. To overdose on weed however is a lot harder.

Dubird - 07 Nov 2002 01:57 pm
Post subject:

it's really all a matter of responsibility.....i mean, if i thought the majority of Americans could be trusted to smoke weed responsibly, then i would say ok, b/c it does have use as a medical drug......but considering most Americans can't even handle alcohol.....and considering a lot of people would be drinking and getting high at the same time.....i personally would be scared to go out on the street.....

plus, there's no really good way to enforce an age limit.....look at all the underage smokers and drinkers we have.....there's always a way for an underage kid to get ahold of smokes or alcohol.....legalize pot, and it'll be that much eaiser for minors to get ahold of it....besides, legalize pot in one state, that's almost like legalizing pot for the nation since someone could just drive down there, buy the pot, and then drive home with it.....smugglers do that all the time.....and there's no checkpoints between states.....it'd be much harder to find.....

i personally don't think most Americans can handle legal pot.....of course, i also don't trust most Americans with anything more dangerous than string, either, but that's another argument entirely....

Azrael - 07 Nov 2002 04:22 pm
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String...that's probably a bad idea too. They could strangle somebody.

coolkam007 - 07 Nov 2002 04:35 pm
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well..

its a difficult thing..

heres some interesting notes that you might not know..

Pot plants grow faster then bamboo.. and also in their stocks they have wood.. its not like an old trees worth.. but pot plants Could be grown at fast rates and use their wood for paper products..

also.. with the wood, you can make really strong boarding and such.. thats stronger then plywood.... you could make houses out of it..

And

the seeds are edible..

and hemp could be and is used to make clothing

i am against smoking it.. but the plant has major good points..

i wouldn't mind if it was managed by the government controlled buinesses.. to make wood and paper and clothing products.... the plants growth rate is so great that pot plants could save forests from being clear cut..

Korin - 07 Nov 2002 06:10 pm
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ODing offa weed.. that shit was laced or he had an allergic reaction too it. I know similar people who will die if they smoke a ciggarette.

Heir of Silence: actually yoo smoke the bud too... thats why they call it bud.

DX: i wanna know where yoo got yoor info. I need evidence to prove that one j is equivilant of 7 packs. if it is true its probably b/c of all the carcinogens... and alot of the carcinogens in weed is added to them... tho not all to be fair.

I personally think all of the people here who havent even smoke and weed shoodnt talk as much. I believe before yoo have the right to talk about a subject much yoo shood go out and experience it.

I think it shood be legal. For one if the govt. ever wants to crack down on marijuana sales there going to hafta legalize it and then they can regulate it. When America made alcohol illegal it didnt work so why wood banning marijuana work either.

I think it wood be better if there was no alcohol and only marijuana. Alcohol can cause abuse and all sorts of shit. Alcohol withdrawl is the most harmful withdrawl of them all. Yoo can come down of heroin and not feel as bad as a hardcore alcoholic. Marijuana... yoo can not walk to get up to beat yoor wife or child. While it does cause car accidents... the chance of yoo having the motivation or the energy for that matter to get inna car to drive somewhere are small.

Dont get me wrong, its definitly not safe, and nobody shood doo any drugs at all but its good times man. Oh well... i guess maybe if they smoke enough then maybe the army wood stop bombing other countries.

Eli - 07 Nov 2002 07:32 pm
Post subject:

WTF? O.D.'ing on weed is...impossible...im sorry.

Quote:

I personally think all of the people here who havent even smoke and weed shoodnt talk as much. I believe before yoo have the right to talk about a subject much yoo shood go out and experience it.

thank you korin...

you know waht...from now on im leaving all my replies to controversial or debatible topics up to alex...cuz hes plaguarizing my unspoken thoughts anyways

lol

All in all, i dun think it should be legalized for obvious reasons, americans ARENT responsible enough for it (canadians either grx...

) to be handling it, they cant even handle their drinking and cig habits, my mom is back at drinking again and she smokes normally 3 and ahalf packs a day, hopefully she has cut down abit since she moved...

Heir of Silence - 07 Nov 2002 07:47 pm
Post subject:

The way I see it, even IF it will have the apocalyptic effect of hurting so many people as some of you predict, it'd just be Darwinism in action (which is an effect I like).

Weed would not be legal for people under 18. Right now, everyone who wants weed can get it anyways...you make the argument that they'll smoke underage, like they do with cigarettes, but it won't be anything new. In fact, it'll probably be much harder. Illegalized, you could just get it through any dealer or smoker on the street. Legal, the dealers will be gone and you'd have to go through the effort of having someone buy it for you.

Support free choice. Support legalizing a drug that is less socially dangerous than alcohol. Sure, it makes a person kind of stupid, but it poses no significant threat to anyone

Choose life. Choose future. But why would I want to do a thing like that?

Eli - 07 Nov 2002 07:58 pm
Post subject:

well said HoS

coolkam007 - 07 Nov 2002 08:02 pm
Post subject:

darwinism is a beliefe that the strong will survive

people who smoke pot arnt strong.. .. IF they are driving someplace.. and hit and kill people ..

how is that darwinism in action? .. thats like.. the opposite..

i'm not afrade of them being violent..

i'm afrade of them making stupid mistakes and commiting manslaughter..

heh.. look at that fire .. woo.. la la ala.. *dazed* ... errr.. *plays with it.. and the candle alls over and the appartment complex starts on fire, and people die*

Heir of Silence - 07 Nov 2002 08:14 pm
Post subject:

People on pot aren't dangerous to other people, really. It's kind of rare for them to want to drive, and if they do, they don't drive in a quirky manner. Slow, maybe. There tends to be a certain line. People on pot are neither smart nor stupid enough to really hurt anybody- especially in comparison to alcohol. The only people that stoners are significantly liable to hurt are themselves.

DeathscytheX - 07 Nov 2002 09:39 pm
Post subject:

This is all a load.. the pro agruments are all based on idealism.. welcome to the real world..

say want u want.. just because it will be legalized for only 18 and over doesnt mean anything.. i know A LOT of people under the age that drink and smoke... legalizing pot just makes it more accessible for other people to get it for them.

Korin: I have read many scientific studies on it and yes you're right it is the all the carcinogens.. what makes u think if they legalized it theyd stop added them?

ur comment on trying it is quite foolish.. who would want to try something that physically is not healthy for them to be able to talk about it....... Does this mean i have to shoot up with herion to beable to say its wrong and not good for public use? does it mean I have to shoot myself in the head to beable to talk about sucide and why its bad? no.. lets legalize Crack so the government doesnt have to waste time and money cracking down on it.. thats the attitude of your statements... Alcohol has been widely used since the begining of time. and it was popular and legal before it was banned in the earily part of the century which is why prohibation failed. btw i know plenty of people that drive high.

Yeah people die of smoking? does it make it good? no.. I dont smoke, drink, or use any illegal substances.. i think i have pleanty of room to talk on this issue being that Im much older and wiser than alot of people on the forum under Lady and Sledge..

Darwinism and all of his theories were disproven by darwin himself.. if u didnt know that its because his believers and scientists really dont care for you to know..

HoS: if stoners are liable to hurt themselfs they why legalize it?

Kiki: doesnt matter what you do 'kiddies' are gonna get them.

Hei Feng - 07 Nov 2002 09:47 pm
Post subject:

Yeah, maybe it should be legalized. It'd be a good ethic cleansing. The potheads will kill themselves somehow.

DeathscytheX - 07 Nov 2002 09:50 pm
Post subject:

do u think their is a term for self-genocide other than mass suicide?

Fate - 07 Nov 2002 10:23 pm
Post subject:

I don't think it should become legal
It would just cause way too many problems and open up a whole bunch of others that no one would want to deal with.

Vincent - 08 Nov 2002 01:18 am
Post subject:

i really don't think americans are responsible enough nor do they have the right attitude as a nation to have pot legalized. i think holland is a good example. they're more 'mature' having marijuana and prostitution legal within its borders, and they're still are some of the most tolerant, open-minded people of the world. always have, always will.

Eli - 08 Nov 2002 01:45 am
Post subject:

Korin's comment isnt foolish...its experience driven and you dont get any better idea for opinion than that.

Quote:

This is all a load.. the pro agruments are all based on idealism.. welcome to the real world..

Hello, welcome to the real word, been there, done that, still living it, so dont start that shit.
it doesnt mean you have to try heroin to know its bad, but pot and heroin are 2 totally different things, you cant even put them in the same category. It is so less likely to get out and around when you high because pot is a downer, your not even gonna want to do anything but sit there if your far enough along, if your not far enough along than chances are your prolly not high enough to alter your way of thinking. Believe it or not potheads ARE some of the most intelligence ppl in the world.
Not ALL of Darwyn's theories were proven wrong, just not socially accepted.
Why not? alcoholics are more liable to hurt themselves than stoners, id WAY prefer there be stoners around than drunks. You cannot possibly imagine how much i hate drunks...

I dont think pot should be legalized because noone could responsibly handle it, but when you try to make debate with nothing but common knowledge against those with experience that tends to not only make you look like a jackass but it pisses off those who know for a fact what and how it goes. If your going to do it, do it right or stay out of the subject.

Guyver - 08 Nov 2002 06:59 am
Post subject:

contraversial issue.
screw it
y not lets all go 2 hell on a high, it is better then goin whilst ur depressed.

Akira13 - 08 Nov 2002 08:27 am
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MYTHS Surrounding Marijuana by Paul Herger of the ICLU Drug Task
Force

1. Marijuana causes brain damage

The most celebrated study that claims to show brain damage is the rhesus monkey study of Dr. Robert Heath, done in the late 1970s. This study was reviewed by a distinguished panel of scientists sponsored by the Institute of Medicine and the National Academy of Sciences. Their results were published under the title, Marijuana and Health in 1982. Heath's work was sharply criticized for its insufficient sample size (only four monkeys), its failure to control experimental bias, and the misidentification of normal monkey brain structure as 'damaged'. Actual studies of human populations of marijuana users have shown no evidence of brain damage. For example, two studies from 1977, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) showed no evidence of brain damage in heavy users of marijuana. That same year, the American Medical Association (AMA) officially came out in favor of decriminalizing marijuana. That's not the sort of thing you'd expect if the AMA thought marijuana damaged the brain.

2. Marijuana damages the reproductive system

This claim is based chiefly on the work of Dr. Gabriel Nahas, who experimented with tissue (cells) isolated in petri dishes, and the work of researchers who dosed animals with near-lethal amounts of cannabinoids (i.e., the intoxicating part of marijuana). Nahas' generalizations from his petri dishes to human beings have been rejected by the scientific community as being invalid. In the case of the animal experiments, the animals that survived their ordeal returned to normal within 30 days of the end of the experiment. Studies of actual human populations have failed to demonstrate that marijuana adversely affects the reproductive system.

3. Marijuana is a 'gateway' drug -- it leads to hard drugs

This is one of the more persistent myths. A real world example of what happens when marijuana is readily available can be found in Holland. The Dutch partially legalized marijuana in the 1970s. Since then, hard drug use -- heroin and cocaine -- have DECLINED substantially. If marijuana really were a gateway drug, one would have expected use of hard drugs to have gone up, not down. This apparent 'negative gateway' effect has also been observed in the United States. Studies done in the early 1970s showed a negative correlation between use of marijuana and use of alcohol. A 1993 Rand Corporation study that compared drug use in states that had decriminalized marijuana versus those that had not, found that where marijuana was more available -- the states that had decriminalized -- hard drug abuse as measured by emergency room episodes decreased. In short, what science and actual experience tell us is that marijuana tends to substitute for the much more dangerous hard drugs like alcohol, cocaine, and heroin.

4. Marijuana suppresses the immune system

Like the studies claiming to show damage to the reproductive system, this myth is based on studies where animals were given extremely high -- in many cases, near-lethal -- doses of cannabinoids. These results have never been duplicated in human beings. Interestingly, two studies done in 1978 and one done in 1988 showed that hashish and marijuana may have actually stimulated the immune system in the people studied.

5. Marijuana is much more dangerous than tobacco

Smoked marijuana contains about the same amount of carcinogens as does an equivalent amount of tobacco. It should be remembered, however, that a heavy tobacco smoker consumes much more tobacco than a heavy marijuana smoker consumes marijuana. This is because smoked tobacco, with a 90% addiction rate, is the most addictive of all drugs while marijuana is less addictive than caffeine. Two other factors are important. The first is that paraphernalia laws directed against marijuana users make it difficult to smoke safely. These laws make water pipes and bongs, which filter some of the carcinogens out of the smoke, illegal and, hence, unavailable. The second is that, if marijuana were legal, it would be more economical to have cannabis drinks like bhang (a traditional drink in the Middle East) or tea which are totally non-carcinogenic. This is in stark contrast with 'smokeless' tobacco products like snuff which can cause cancer of the mouth and throat. When all of these facts are taken together, it can be clearly seen that the reverse is true: marijuana is much SAFER than tobacco.

6. Legal marijuana would cause carnage on the highways

Although marijuana, when used to intoxication, does impair performance in a manner similar to alcohol, actual studies of the effect of marijuana on the automobile accident rate suggest that it poses LESS of a hazard than alcohol. When a random sample of fatal accident victims was studied, it was initially found that marijuana was associated with RELATIVELY as many accidents as alcohol. In other words, the number of accident victims intoxicated on marijuana relative to the number of marijuana users in society gave a ratio similar to that for accident victims intoxicated on alcohol relative to the total number of alcohol users. However, a closer examination of the victims revealed that around 85% of the people intoxicated on marijuana WERE ALSO INTOXICATED ON ALCOHOL. For people only intoxicated on marijuana, the rate was much lower than for alcohol alone. This finding has been supported by other research using completely different methods. For example, an economic analysis of the effects of decriminalization on marijuana usage found that states that had reduced penalties for marijuana possession experienced a rise in marijuana use and a decline in alcohol use with the result that fatal highway accidents decreased. This would suggest that, far from causing 'carnage', legal marijuana might actually save lives.

7. Marijuana 'flattens' human brainwaves

This is an out-and-out lie perpetrated by the Partnership for a Drug-Free America. A few years ago, they ran a TV ad that purported to show, first, a normal human brainwave, and second, a flat brainwave from a 14-year-old 'on marijuana'. When researchers called up the TV networks to complain about this commercial, the Partnership had to pull it from the air. It seems that the Partnership faked the flat 'marijuana brainwave'. In reality, marijuana has the effect of slightly INCREASING alpha wave activity. Alpha waves are associated with meditative and relaxed states which are, in turn, often associated with human creativity.

8. Marijuana is more potent today than in the past

This myth is the result of bad data. The researchers who made the claim of increased potency used as their baseline the THC content of marijuana seized by police in the early 1970s. Poor storage of this marijuana in un-air conditioned evidence rooms caused it to deteriorate and decline in potency before any chemical assay was performed. Contemporaneous, independent assays of unseized 'street' marijuana from the early 1970s showed a potency equivalent to that of modern 'street' marijuana. Actually, the most potent form of this drug that was generally available was sold legally in the 1920s and 1930s by the pharmaceutical company Smith-Klein under the name, 'American Cannabis'.

9. Marijuana impairs short-term memory

This is true but misleading. Any impairment of short-term memory disappears when one is no longer under the influence of marijuana. Often, the short-term memory effect is paired with a reference to Dr. Heath's poor rhesus monkeys to imply that the condition is permanent.

10. Marijuana lingers in the body like DDT

This is also true but misleading. Cannabinoids are fat soluble as are innumerable nutrients and, yes, some poisons like DDT. For example, the essential nutrient, Vitamin A, is fat soluble but one never hears people who favor marijuana prohibition making this comparison.

11. There are over a thousand chemicals in marijuana smoke

Again, true but misleading. The 31 August 1990 issue of the magazine Science notes that of the over 800 volatile chemicals present in roasted COFFEE, only 21 have actually been tested on animals and 16 of these cause cancer in rodents. Yet, coffee remains legal and is generally considered fairly safe.

12. No one has ever died of a marijuana overdose

This is true. It was put in to see if you are paying attention. Animal tests have revealed that extremely high doses of cannabinoids are needed to have lethal effect. This has led scientists to conclude that the ratio of the amount of cannabinoids necessary to get a person intoxicated (i.e., stoned) relative to the amount necessary to kill them is 1 to 40,000. In other words, to overdose, you would have to consume 40,000 times as much marijuana as you needed to get stoned. In contrast, the ratio for alcohol varies between 1 to 4 and 1 to 10. It is easy to see how upwards of 5000 people die from alcohol overdoses every year and no one EVER dies of marijuana overdoses.

WHAT IS THE ICLU DRUG TASK FORCE?

The Indiana Civil Liberties Union (ICLU) Drug Task Force is involved in education and lobbying efforts directed toward reforming drug policy. Specifically, we support ACLU Policy Statement number 210 which calls for the legalization of marijuana. We also support an end to the drug war. In its place, we favor 'harm reduction' strategies which treat drug abuse as what it is -- a medical problem -- rather than a criminal justice problem.

The Drug Task Force also works to end urine and hair testing of workers by private industry. These kinds of tests violate worker privacy to no good purpose because they detect past use of certain drugs (mostly marijuana) while ignoring others (e.g., LSD) and cannot detect current impairment. In situations where public and worker safety is a legitimate concern, we advocate impairment testing devices which reliably detect degradation of performance without infringing upon worker privacy.

For more information about the activities of the Drug Task Force, call the ICLU at (317) 635-4059 or call Paul Hager at (812) 333-1384 or e-mail to hagerp@cs.indiana.edu on the InterNet.

SOURCES

1) Marijuana and Health, Institute of Medicine, National Academy of Sciences, 1982. Note: the Committee on Substance Abuse and Habitual Behavior of the 'Marijuana and Health' study had its part of the final report suppressed when it reviewed the evidence and recommended that possession of small amounts of marijuana should no longer be a crime (TIME magazine, July 19, 1982). The two JAMA studies are: Co, B.T., Goodwin, D.W., Gado, M., Mikhael, M., and Hill, S.Y.: 'Absence of cerebral atrophy in chronic cannabis users', JAMA, 237:1229-1230, 1977; and, Kuehnle, J., Mendelson, J.H., Davis, K.R., and New, P.F.J.: 'Computed tomographic examination of heavy marijuana smokers', JAMA, 237:1231-1232, 1977.

2) See Marijuana and Health, ibid., for information on this research. See also, Marijuana Reconsidered (1978) by Dr. Lester Grinspoon.

3) The Dutch experience is written up in 'The Economics of Legalizing Drugs', by Richard J. Dennis, The Atlantic Monthly, Vol 266, No. 5, Nov 1990, p. 130. See 'A Comparison of Marijuana Users and Non-users' by Norman Zinberg and Andrew Weil (1971) for the negative correlation between use of marijuana and use of alcohol. The 1993 Rand Corporation study is 'The Effect of Marijuana Decriminalization on Hospital Emergency Room Episodes: 1975 - 1978' by Karyn E. Model.

4) See a review of studies and their methodology in 'Marijuana and Immunity', Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, Vol 20(1), Jan-Mar 1988. Studies showing stimulation of the immune system: Kaklamani, et al., 'Hashish smoking and T- lymphocytes', 1978; Kalofoutis et al., 'The significance of lymphocyte lipid changes after smoking hashish', 1978. The 1988 study: Wallace, J.M., Tashkin, D.P., Oishi, J.S., Barbers, R.G., 'Peripheral Blood Lymphocyte Subpopulations and Mitogen Responsiveness in Tobacco and Marijuana Smokers', 1988, Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, ibid.

5) The 90% figure comes from Health Consequences of Smoking: Nicotine Addiction, Surgeon General's Report, 1988. In Health magazine in an article entitled, 'Hooked, Not Hooked' by Deborah Franklin (pp. 39-52), compares the addictives of various drugs and ranks marijuana below coffeine. For current information on cannabis drinks see Working Men and Ganja: Marijuana Use in Rural Jamaica by M. C. Dreher, Institute for the Study of Human Issues, 1982, ISBN 0-89727-025-8. For information on cannabis and actual cancer risk, see Marijuana and Health, ibid.

6) For a survey of studies relating to cannabis and highway accidents see 'Marijuana, Driving and Accident Safety', by Dale Gieringer, Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, ibid. The effect of decriminalization on highway accidents is analyzed in 'Do Youths Substitute Alcohol and Marijuana? Some Econometric Evidence' by Frank J. Chaloupka and Adit Laixuthai, Nov. 1992, University of Illinois at Chicago.

7) For information about the Partnership ad, see Jack Herer's book, The Emperor Wears No Clothes, 1990, p. 74. See also 'Hard Sell in the Drug War', The Nation, March 9, 1992, by Cynthia Cotts, which reveals that the Partnership receives a large percentage of its advertizing budget from alcohol, tobacco, and pharmaceutical companies and is thus disposed toward exaggerating the risks of marijuana while downplaying the risks of legal drugs. For information on memory and the alpha brainwave enhancement effect, see 'Marijuana, Memory, and Perception', by R. L. Dornbush, M.D., M. Fink, M.D., and A. M. Freedman, M.D., presented at the 124th annual meeting of the American Psychiatric Association, May 3-7, 1971.

8) See 'Cannabis 1988, Old Drug New Dangers, The Potency Question' by Tod H Mikuriya, M.D. and Michael Aldrich, Ph.D., Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, ibid.

9) See Marijuana and Health, ibid. Also see 'Marijuana, Memory, and Perception', ibid.

10) The fat solubility of cannabinoids and certain vitamins is well known. See Marijuana and Health, ibid. For some information on vitamin A, see 'The A Team' in Scientific American, Vol 264, No. 2, February 1991, p. 16.

11) See 'Too Many Rodent Carcinogens: Mitogenesis Increases Mutagenesis', Bruce N. Ames and Lois Swirsky Gold, Science, Vol 249, 31 August 1990, p. 971.

12) Cannabis and alcohol toxicity is compared in Marijuana Reconsidered, ibid., p. 227. Yearly alcohol overdoses was taken from 'Drug Prohibition in the United States: Costs, Consequences, and Alternatives' by Ethan A. Nadelmann, Science, Vol 245, 1 September 1989, p. 943.

Hmmmmmm????? Read this!!!

Vincent - 08 Nov 2002 08:45 am
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damn that's long

Ladywriter - 08 Nov 2002 09:09 am
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if weed could be govt controlled, as in how much for a certain price , age requirement to buy, controlled potency, and dwi type laws for trees.... they would make a mint. that cash flow could go to health care for all and/or decrese the national debt exponentially

Akira13 - 08 Nov 2002 09:29 am
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Vincent wrote:

damn that's long

didja read the whole thing? its quite informative.

Ladywriter - 08 Nov 2002 09:39 am
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i read it, mostly i already knew that *puuuffffffffff*

Spike Spiegel - 08 Nov 2002 09:57 am
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i say (im sXe...straight edge) im in diffrent, but maybe it should be legalized here check this out http://www.hempys.com/

Cloud - 08 Nov 2002 10:45 am
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what responsibility?

ppl gonna abuse it no matter what. there are millions of underage addicted teens out there. why dont we just shoot those addicts and end there suffering already.

good for you if you have control of it. but dont drag other ppl's life into it.

Ladywriter - 08 Nov 2002 04:20 pm
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i have control.....

DeathscytheX - 08 Nov 2002 10:20 pm
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Eli wrote:

Like i said Its all the agruements are based on idealism and not realism.. u just jumped to a conculsion without fully understanding my point as most people tend to do on this forum... everyone is saying.. oh yeah the government can make it legal as long as they strictly regulate it.. thats BS... I dont care how hard they try they wont beable to.. they cant even now when its illegal.. making it legal will make it more accessable to younger people.

EXACTLY I know i dont have to try herion to know its bad.. just like I dont have to try Pot to know its bad.. so what if they are 2 different things.. they are BAD. unhealthy.. not good..

and i repeat myself.. I know A LOT of people that smoke pot and get around all the time.. they drive.. they come to freakin work.. they go places high.. I know people.. not rumors and stories that claim pot makes people want to stay put. I not only read about it.. I see it 1st hand. so dont give me that BS because i have the best proof their is. some people dont go around cuzz they smell like weed and they dont want anyone to know.. u cant just go walking down the street smoking a joint in broad daylight where everyone can see it.... legalizing would make it more openly used and more people would get around.

people arent seeing the whole picture here. Idealism is only a fantasy.

Heir of Silence - 09 Nov 2002 01:33 am
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[quote='DeathscytheX']
EXACTLY I know i dont have to try herion to know its bad.. just like I dont have to try Pot to know its bad.. so what if they are 2 different things.. they are BAD. unhealthy.. not good..people arent seeing the whole picture here. [quote]

By what standards is it bad? I have yet to hear about someone who died from marijuana, except for one reeeally odd case.

Eli - 09 Nov 2002 02:54 am
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*sighs* your missing the whole point...if you havent seen it yet your not going to, i give up. Continue to live in your little world *pats Dx's head*
Anymawho...several of you understand so ima leave it at that. it isnt ever going to be legalized so end of story.

DeathscytheX - 09 Nov 2002 10:21 pm
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Heir of Silence wrote:

By what standards is it bad? I have yet to hear about someone who died from marijuana, except for one reeeally odd case.

Great observation... considering its illegal you dont hear much about the effect of pot on your health... therefore there arent as many scientific studies done on it as it is with tobacco. I mean its not every day you here someone died from smoking.. you just know it happens because its greatly publicized. I have had maybe a few family members die from smoking.

Answer the question of 'By what standards is it good?' and then come back to me. surely doing something that isnt healthy can do any good for society.

Eli: I never missed a point... you missed my point so you really had none against that post of mine.

Hei Feng - 09 Nov 2002 10:38 pm
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Some drugs are illegal for a reason. That's why they should stay illegal.

By what standards is it bad? By what standards is it bad... it's a waste of money, it doesn't even make you look 'cool' like smoking cigarettes does, and it screw up your brain

Amadeus - 10 Nov 2002 07:07 am
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Hei Feng wrote:

By what standards is it bad? By what standards is it bad... it's a waste of money, it doesn't even make you look 'cool' like smoking cigarettes does, and it screw up your brain

Good point. Possibly the main reason why it is illegal is becuase if it was made legal, then people would start wondering why other class B/C drugs are illegal - especially if the arguments 'well legalising would get more money for the government' and 'well if this isn't harmful, and others aren't (cannabis etc), why are they still illegal?'

Azrael - 10 Nov 2002 01:05 pm
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Hei Feng wrote:

By what standards is it bad... it's a waste of money, it doesn't even make you look 'cool' like smoking cigarettes does, and it screw up your brain

Umm...yeah, since when do cigarettes make you look 'cool'?

If you smoke weed just to try to impress someone, then yeah, it really is a waste of money. It screw up your brain if you smoke like...every day for years. The same can be said of alcohol.

To answer DX's question about by what standards it's good, if you're talking about medical use it's good for glaucoma, and it's the only pain reliever effective on many cancer patients. For recreational use, it's not inherently good, but neither are most recreational activities. And how about this for a concept: Maybe you don't hear about as many people dying from weed because...*gasp*...less people die from it! You said that people in your family had died from cigarettes. Tell me, has anyone else in your family died from marijuana?

Hei Feng - 10 Nov 2002 01:46 pm
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First of all, being 'high' on cigarettes produces little or no outside effect on emotions. You can't tell if someone's just smoked a cigarette just be looking at him.
Smoking marijuana's different. It kills your outlook and emotions. Um, which would you rather have, a cigar-chomping heavy-machine operator or some screw dopehead driving around a steamroller?\

And yeah, don't pretend you don't know about the smoking-is-cool thing. You can't be badass without sunglasses and a cigarette. If Spike from CB said no to every cigarette, let's see how badass he is then.

EDIT: About the medical usage of marijuana. Yeah, it should be legalized, and certain places it is legal. But you know what happens to people treated with marijuana? They get addicted to it after the treatment. Same with morphine.

Amadeus - 10 Nov 2002 01:55 pm
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Ok, firstly, the reason smoking makes people look cool is because the friends of that particuar person would be afraid of disagreing with him/her out of fear. Then there is the group of more intelligent people, the people who do not need to dress fashionably, listen to the latest music or use the lastest words to be cool. They are the people who do not really give a monkeys about being cool; the people who are generally more socially/mentally secure and thus do not need to cry out for attention.
That's all I'm going to say for now because I think most people get my point.

Azrael - 10 Nov 2002 02:38 pm
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Hei Feng wrote:

Smoking marijuana's different. It kills your outlook and emotions. Um, which would you rather have, a cigar-chomping heavy-machine operator or some screw dopehead driving around a steamroller?

And yeah, don't pretend you don't know about the smoking-is-cool thing. You can't be badass without sunglasses and a cigarette. If Spike from CB said no to every cigarette, let's see how badass he is then.

EDIT: About the medical usage of marijuana. Yeah, it should be legalized, and certain places it is legal. But you know what happens to people treated with marijuana? They get addicted to it after the treatment. Same with morphine.

Ok, weed doesn't kill your outlook or emotions...just changes them. I'll refer back to Korin's thing about trying before you talk shit. And of course you wouldn't want some dude smokin' a doobie on a steamroller! You wouldn't want that person drinking a bottle of liquor either, should we make that illegal?

Spike isn't badass because he smokes cigarettes, it just adds to the character as a symbol of his human weakness. Bruce Lee was badass, he didn't smoke.

For Amadeus: Several of my friends smoke. I have no problems disagreeing with them or laughing in their face when they do something stupid. If a cigarette has that much influence on someone, then that person is a fool.

Back to Hei: There are lots of medications that you could potentially get addicted to, that's why you need a prescription for them. At any rate, if you did get addicted to marijuana, it's one of the easier habits to break.

Amadeus - 10 Nov 2002 02:41 pm
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Azrael wrote:

None of my friends smoke cigarettes. A couple get high on weed every now and then but they're not my close friends, just people I know.
If one of my good friends started smoking I really would have to have a go at them and ask them why etc.
Maybe it's becuase my dad's a doctor and mum's a nurse, but I feel very strongly about things like this.

Hei Feng - 10 Nov 2002 03:27 pm
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About trying before I talk shit: Ain't no screw way I'm ever gonna smoke weed. I don't have to be an actor to be a movie critic. Smoking cigarettes is supposedly a way to relieve stress. Smoking weed is supposedly a way to run away from the current situation. These are two different situations.

The way we argue this is like whether or not rape is right. Why, of course it's wrong! No way, it's for the enjoyment of one party at the others' expense! So? screw, the way you put it, if someone's weak enough to be raped, they SHOULD be raped. If I'm stupid enough to smoke illegal shit, then you should let me smoke it. Well, that's wrong. The world doesn't operate like that. I remember a certain incident in which I spoke to someone who lived in a northern European country (in my CS clan). He told me he just got back from smoking weed and graffiti'ing the town. Let me add he's an addict, is 16, and is being tried as an adult for beating the shit out of a guy with a basebal bat. Whoo-hoo!!!

Marijuana... easy habit to break? Then why don't they screw stop doing it?

DeathscytheX - 10 Nov 2002 05:42 pm
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finally.. people that understand. thank you Hei

Heir of Silence - 10 Nov 2002 06:33 pm
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It's not physically addictive, it's mentally/emotionally addictive. If you get mentally addicted to pot in the first place, you probably didn't have much concern for yourself or strong will anyway

Hei Feng - 10 Nov 2002 06:46 pm
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So it makes it worse. And it drains money.

Heir of Silence - 10 Nov 2002 07:59 pm
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Drains money from potheads, yes. Good for the economy, if you ask me

Hei Feng - 10 Nov 2002 08:18 pm
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Especially since it gives money to terrorists in South America.

Heir of Silence - 10 Nov 2002 09:19 pm
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Currently yes. Legalized, the money goes to the government and hopefully gets recycled into society(hopefully stimulating our economy)

DeathscytheX - 10 Nov 2002 11:22 pm
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Yeah. let us be the country known for boosting its economy off drugs that make people fools.

Its addicitive no matter how u put it.. most drug addictions are mental.. i mean u cant die from quitting the use of illegal substances. so lets just prey on the weak minded and let them die a slow and horrible death to help get the government rich, right? wrong.. they do that enough with tobacco.. it would be stupid to give them something else.

It would be nice if the world could have more morals here, it's lost enough as it is.

Guyver - 11 Nov 2002 05:21 am
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can we get a hand on all those who have smoked weed or other simula substacnes,

...........

i tried skunk.............
didnt like it, and never do it again.

ppl who want a false feelin of joy ARE ...........
take a guess.
it is said not 2 b addictive then y is it 4 a year at my high school every week we went 2 c a supplier.
no it is not addictive, ppl just wont give it up, and when their broke thats when jackin old ppl comes into play

Ladywriter - 11 Nov 2002 10:38 am
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umm... I think comparin smokin weed to rape is a lil drastic... not quite an fair assesment of either.
i have seen ppl become total asholes w/o weed. these people are suffering from serious psychological problems that were there before they ever puffed their first hit. its not that they are addicted in any clinical sense of the word, its a choice that they have made . you tell yerself somethin long enuff, eventually you'll belive it.
but for the most part the ppl i know n have know in the 15 years ive been exposed to weed have control over how much they do and how much they'll spend.
lets look at it like this, on the street joe blow pays 40$ for a bag. that 40$ is enuff to cover most dr visits.
if the us govt was growing hemp, the hemp can be harvested for paper, clothes, etc. the leaves and buds can be put into a cigarette forum, potency controlled, and sold to ppl over 21 at 1/2 the cost youd spend on the street. that takes care of the illigal drug trafficing of weed, for the most part. ppl should also be free ta grow their own. then there will be a shit load less $ going to forigen terrorists and alot going into the American budget. that $40 u give the govt for weed could mean that some sick person could see a dr and get treatment. oooh so evil.
theres smoke/coffee shops in other countrys, how many of those evil bastards can you name that are a threat to themselves n others?
*answer... 0 *

Hei Feng - 11 Nov 2002 05:27 pm
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You have to realize that legalizing weed is like legalizing assisted suicide, and I know there is ONE country (Netherlands?) that allows that. Suicide... your life, your choice, right? If you wanna do a hunger strike, why can't you? It's your life. But it's wrong. It's legal to do a hunger strike, but it's illegal for the government to not take action. Same with weed, but it's illegal both ways.

Vincent - 11 Nov 2002 06:09 pm
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how is a hunger strike assisted suicide?

Hei Feng - 11 Nov 2002 06:36 pm
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Well, basically, if you do a hunger strike, it's suicide. It's assisted if no one tries to stop you. What they do in that European country is there are government facilities that assist suicide via lethal injection.

Vincent - 11 Nov 2002 06:55 pm
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wth? that's a bunch of bull. if no one helps you than no one else was involved! if people are stupid enough to attempt suicide then they should die anyways. i think this topic is teeterin on the edge of a flame war so i'll back out. that and becuase i realize i don't know what the hell i'm talking about anymore.

Kaede - 11 Nov 2002 08:47 pm
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yes, Netherlands is a very liberal country...my aunt's masseuse left her country b/c of that very reason, too liberal.

Azrael - 11 Nov 2002 09:01 pm
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I personally don't see anything wrong with assisted suicide. I can think of a number of situations in which I would rather be dead than drag out my life. Hunger striking isn't wrong, it's a mass-demonstration of people saying that they feel strongly enough about an issue to die for it. It's more of an ultimate statement of beliefs than suicide.

EDIT: *glances up at the off-topic-ness* Oh well.

Hei Feng - 11 Nov 2002 09:09 pm
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This is one instance off-topicness is good, cuz we are going into a flame war (and I'm part of the fuel

)

The thing is, how devoted can you get?
I'll cite two examples.
1. terrorists-they make be screw idiots, but still, you gotta give them credit for doing what they believe... even if it's hateful, stupid, and it's gonna send them to hell (burn you bastards!)

2. falun gong cult in China... US media GREATLY exaggerated the story, saying the Chinese government didn't allow them to operate because they threatened Communism. HA!!!!
Here are da facts:
1. Falun Gong members were prohibited from seeing physicians by the cult leader, for he believed man should not resort to medicine, but only himself.
2. Falun Gong members have actually developed brain disease. I'm not sure why, but it's a very strange trend.
3. Falun Gong members are stupid. Need I talk about the idiots that, on New Year's Day (year 2000), lit themselves (and some children) on fire in order to 'demonstrate' against the government? Peace for ya there. Of course, all we hear about that is a little snippet in the newspaper or 10 seconds on the radio.

Azrael - 11 Nov 2002 09:15 pm
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Heh...I saw a Falun Gong march while I was in Washington. Interesting to hear the other side of the story. Still don't think it justifies their treatment, but interesting.

Anyway, I was thinking more along the lines of the civil rights hunger strikes, and that whole thing with Ghandi in India. The difference with terrorists is that not only do they hurt themselves, they hurt other people. And your description of that New Year's thing...sounds like the same idea as a hunger strike, except badly planned. It doesn't give the government any incentive to change if the potential martyrs are already dead.

Hei Feng - 11 Nov 2002 09:19 pm
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Well, you have to realize, the reason Falun Gong is banned in China is NOT just because it threatens the government. It's also a way to prevent a sorta HUGE hunger strike, in a different sense. What if the Christian population of America decided to stop taking medicine? To stop seeing doctors? That's the dilemma the Falun Gong presented.

Kaede - 11 Nov 2002 09:25 pm
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Hei Feng wrote:

The thing is, how devoted can you get?
I'll cite two examples.
1. terrorists-they make be screw idiots, but still, you gotta give them credit for doing what they believe... even if it's hateful, stupid, and it's gonna send them to hell (burn you bastards!)

I don't know about those planned random kidnapping done by Abu-Sayyaf in the Philippines

Hei Feng - 11 Nov 2002 09:29 pm
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That was just stupid. Their leader's dead, so that's good. How many hostages did they kill? I know they killed the missionaries.

Heir of Silence - 11 Nov 2002 09:35 pm
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Hei Feng wrote:

Marijuana is NOT suicide
Marijuana is NOT dangerous

And Hei, your Christians-in-America situation is not just hypothetical. There is a quite significant sect of Christianity known as 'Christian Scientists'. They believe in the power of prayer, and refuse to take any medicine or undergo any medical operations, trusting only in the healing hand of God. I see no controversy in America over that

Hei Feng - 11 Nov 2002 09:49 pm
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No da. That's my point. It's because China's communist, so they make a big deal about it when a large sect does that in China. Oh yeah, you also have to know Falun Gong members infiltrated around 2/3 of China's government. Yeah. 2/3's. How about if 2/3's of America's government turned into Christian scientists? Would you feel safe?

Azrael - 11 Nov 2002 09:57 pm
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Hell no I wouldn't feel safe, if I had imprisoned and executed Christian scientists because of their religious beliefs.

Hei Feng - 11 Nov 2002 10:02 pm
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And how many Falun Gong members were persecuted for their belief? How many were persecuted because they DID something that their belief led them to do?

Dude. What if I told you that in Malaysia, there exists an ethnic group that is not RITUALLY cannibalistic, but is actually just cannibalistic. What are you gonna do? Prosecute them for their 'beliefs', or just leave them alone?

Heir of Silence - 11 Nov 2002 10:07 pm
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I don't have anything against cannibalism....don't know why it should be illegal, assuming they don't kill the people to eat them...

Vincent - 11 Nov 2002 10:08 pm
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well considering that a good 90% or so of congress have an extensive criminal record...

Azrael - 11 Nov 2002 10:09 pm
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Well, if they killed people for the sake of eating them, then I'd have a problem with it. If they just had a custom of eating their recently-dead, then I'd let them go about their business and just remember not to invite any of them to a potluck.

EDIT: Damn...I'm late again.

Heir of Silence - 11 Nov 2002 10:12 pm
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Late but not unimportant! Uselessness is quite a cognitive business

Hei Feng - 11 Nov 2002 10:20 pm
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Azrael wrote:

No no. They raid villages and kill people to eat them.

Heir of Silence - 11 Nov 2002 10:24 pm
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Well that's a little out of line, I'd say o.O

Azrael - 11 Nov 2002 10:26 pm
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Hrm...well, I suppose if they were being all mean about it like that, I'd have to be a little forceful. I assume you're talking about the Falun Gong still?

Hei Feng - 11 Nov 2002 10:29 pm
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The cannibalism was about a ethnic group in Malaysia. I'm just saying, sometimes you DO have to prosecute people for their views.

Heir of Silence - 11 Nov 2002 10:30 pm
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What does prosecuting people for their views have to do with pot?

Hei Feng - 11 Nov 2002 10:31 pm
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Heir of Silence - 11 Nov 2002 10:33 pm
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We went from weed to devouring people in Malaysia....the power of AC is evil and all-consuming

Azrael - 11 Nov 2002 10:34 pm
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Yeah...we're completely off-topic now.

Back to Hei: Well, if their views include violent crimes, yeah. If their views include lighting themselves on fire on New Year's Eve, it's their choice.

Hei Feng - 11 Nov 2002 10:55 pm
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Aiya. They lit up their children. That's called murder. Yeah, it was their children. Same thing with the Branch Davidians in Texas.

DeathscytheX - 11 Nov 2002 11:58 pm
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Heir of Silence wrote:

We went from weed to devouring people in Malaysia....the power of AC is evil and all-consuming

AC power comes from me

Weed is dangerous you dolt.. its not good for you.. you have yet to state by what standard is weed good? therefore you have no arguement. you keep trying to argue with people that say its bad without you saying why its good.. you cant do that.

Then again coming from a person that isnt against eating other people... it doesnt say much

Vincent - 12 Nov 2002 12:48 am
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weed's about as good for you as alchohol

Shaolin5 - 12 Nov 2002 06:34 pm
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hahaha, its so funny to see how off-topic these discussions get...oh well. instead of babbling on i'll cut straight to the point. 'Should marijuana be legal?' Yes...i have many strong reasons for thinkin this, but im too lazy to type it all out...

Hei Feng - 12 Nov 2002 06:43 pm
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Vincent wrote:

weed's about as good for you as alchohol

Oh, it's definitely worse. You can grow it yourself. That's infinitely worse.

Aroura - 12 Nov 2002 06:49 pm
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You can make beer yourself... My dad used to do it. It takes a while though... But yeah, pot is worse.

Shaolin5 - 12 Nov 2002 06:52 pm
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i really love how people have never even experienced with these things themselves think that one or the other is worse for you...im sorry but the only harmful thing in weed is the fact that any smoke going into your lungs is bad for you....weed is nowhere near as harmful as cigaretes, and they are legal. the only reason weed isn't legal and cigaretes are, is because 'weed is a gateway drug.' and that right there is bullshit as well...EVERYBODY i know that smokes pot sticks with it, and thinks the other, more harmful drugs are stupid...

Heir of Silence - 12 Nov 2002 07:09 pm
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DX, my dear friend, just because something is not bad does not mean it is good. I have no intention of trying to prove that it is good. However, I also have no intention of thinking that it is necessarily bad.

Take oatmeal, for existance. Kind of bland....it's not bad, really. But it's also nothing amazing.

Hei Feng - 12 Nov 2002 07:15 pm
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Shaolin5 wrote:

O.M.G.
It's the sorriest shit when someone DEFENDS a screw drug. WEED IS DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR ABILITY TO REASON.
I know you can brew beer, but brewing beer is a LOT different than GROWING a plant. Hell, if you say selling weed is gonna help the economy, who the screw is gonna buy it? Dammit, everyone'll plant their own since it's legal. Everyone'll be high too.

Shaolin5 - 12 Nov 2002 07:19 pm
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ok, its not like i'm going around like weed is great for you or anything, but in some instances it actually CAN be good for you, believe it or not. many people take it because they are stressed out, depressed, and suicidal; so they do some weed to calm them down and actually enjoy life for once...hm, which is worse for you. taking a gun to your head, killing you instantly, or doing a little damage to your lungs and some brain cells. come on einstein, you do the math.

Heir of Silence - 12 Nov 2002 07:22 pm
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If it becomes legal, it's not going to become legal to grow it in your house ( without the proper authorization). Same with alcohol. It's going to be government regulated.

Hei Feng - 12 Nov 2002 07:26 pm
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Shaolin5 wrote:

Um, yeah. Let's just run away from our problems instead of taking care of them. Let me tell you something. If you're screw dumb enough to smoke weed to get away from your problems instead of dealing with them, you MUST have a shitass life. You must also have ZERO self-respect, and have shitloads of cash that could be used for better purposes. Einstein, I did my math. I'd rather die depressed than die a screw loser.

How are you going to regulate someone growing a plant in their house? If you have a screw brewery, it's not that hard to see. No, if some policeman came to my house, I'd just tuck that little pot of pot under my bed.

Heir of Silence - 12 Nov 2002 07:31 pm
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I'll agree with you about the self respect thing, but I'm afraid I don't necessarily agree that people smoke pot to get away from their problems. In fact, humans don't need problems to be depressed (a fact that can get kind of annoying). People will whine and depress themselves over anything. I would agree that people smoke pot to get away from depression or even indifference, though

Furthermore, people who grow weed aren't just going to grow one plant, and if so, it's a quite insignificant amount of underground economy compared to the booming weed industry now

Hei Feng - 12 Nov 2002 07:33 pm
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Smoking pot would only worsen the problem. I don't quite remember anyone going 'Hey! I just smoked pot, and I've run away from all my problems!'

Shaolin5 - 12 Nov 2002 07:34 pm
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ok buddy, that isn't the reason i do it, im just saying that is a reason why some people do it. i personally do it because it's fun as hell, gives you one of the greatest feelings, and well...it's just fun! it might do a little damage on my lungs, but oh well. besides, the reason so many of the drugs out there are so harmful is because they are put through many processes, and have a lot of HARMFUL chemicals added to them. marijuana is a 100 percent pure plant put on this earth by God himself, for me and my friends to get blazed

Hei Feng - 12 Nov 2002 07:36 pm
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Yeah. Too bad He put dumbasses like you here too.
EDIT2: FFFFFFLAME!!!!
EDIT3: WHOO HOO!!! Someone's 'on fire' for the Lord... lol...

Shaolin5 - 12 Nov 2002 08:09 pm
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haha, yeah....the other yellow meat, thats gotta be the first thing so far that you've said that has been somewhat amusing...well, that and the fact that your making one plant seem like the worst thing in the world

Hei Feng - 12 Nov 2002 08:13 pm
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Your thinking that weed is good amuses me far more than I do myself.
You think I'm passionate about anti-drugs? Don't even get me started on sports cars.

Heir of Silence - 12 Nov 2002 08:14 pm
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Are you passionate about sports cars or against sports cars? o.o

Shaolin5 - 12 Nov 2002 08:15 pm
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no, im not saying that weed is good overall...im saying that in a VERY SELECT FEW instances it can be for the better, but usually no, it is not good for you...but i don't believe it is as bad for you as some people make it out to be

Hei Feng - 12 Nov 2002 08:16 pm
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100% against wasting $500,000 on a screw sports car. OMG. They're gas burners. Not only that, but they're illegal in half the world's big cities. I'd rather get myself a nice house and pay bills than getting some fast car.

Hei Feng - 12 Nov 2002 08:18 pm
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Shaolin5 wrote:

Yeah. A few select few instances drinking your piss is also a good idea. Like when there's an earthquake and you're stuck in the rubble. Yeah, it's happened to people again. That's not as bad is people make it out to be, either! Gee!

EDIT: Oh crap. Double post... sorry 'bout that. Someone delete this.

DeathscytheX - 12 Nov 2002 09:18 pm
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Heir of Silence wrote:

Its either good or bad.. if it aint good then its not good, which means it bad.. undecisiveness is for the weak.

Shaolin5: thats one of the most stupid things i have ever heard.. experiment with it to see which one is worse? why dont we try hanging ourself or shooting ourselfs in the head to see which one is worse eh? its a drug.. it is bad... Pot is worse than tobacco it screw up your head too much.. if people smoked a pack of pot (thank god there is no such thing) a day trust me alot more people would die from pot than tobacco.

Yeah God put pot on earth.. he never said to go lite it up and inhale it into your system.. he also put poisonous fungus on the ground too why dont u go pick up a slab off a tree or off the ground and take a bite if you think its so pure eh?

Shaolin5 - 12 Nov 2002 09:27 pm
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WHAT??? YOU THINK WEED IS WORSE THAN TABACCO???

. WOW, YOU GUYS REALLY CRACK ME UP. HOW IS IT WORSE THAN TABACCO? MARIJUANA IS A PURE PLANT FROM THE GROUND...IT DOESN'T GO THROUGH ANY HARMFUL PROCESSES. CIGARETTES CONTAIN TABACCO ALONG WITH MANY HARMFUL CHEMICALS ADDED TO MAKE IT MORE EFFECTIVE...PLEASE DON'T GIVE YOUR OPINION IF YOUR GOING TO BE IGNORANT LIKE THAT...YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT. AND ALSO, I DIDN'T TELL YOU GUYS GO GO EXPERIMENT WITH IT, I SAID DON'T GIVE YOUR OPINIONS ON WHICH IS WORSE FOR YOU IF YOU HAVEN'T EVER DONE THAT. AND IF YOU HAD THE INTELLIGENCE TO CHECK THE STATISTICS, THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS DIE IN CAR WRECKS, THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS DIE FROM TABACCO, TWENTY PEOPLE DIE FROM BEE STINGS AND ONLY SEVEN PEOPLE DIE FROM MARIJUANA!! SEVEN PEOPLE IN AN ENTIRE YEAR, WHILE THOUSANDS DIE EACH YEAR FROM TABACCO...NOW WHICH ONE DID YOU SAY WAS WORSE??....IDIOT

Shaolin5 - 12 Nov 2002 09:29 pm
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haha, bee stings...i just had to throw that in there. there were a bunch of categories under which people died, but i just thought bee stings was halarious. more people die from getting stung by bees than smoking marijuana....wow, that sounds way worse than tabacco! especially since tabacco kills thousands, and weed kills seven...lol

coolkam007 - 12 Nov 2002 09:32 pm
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Shaolin5 wrote:

WHAT??? YOU THINK WEED IS WORSE THAN TABACCO???

PLEASE DONT TALK IN ALL CAPS...IDIOT (lol)

edit- and dont double post.. the edit button is there if you want to change or add anything

Hei Feng - 12 Nov 2002 09:34 pm
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Shaolin5 wrote:

WHAT??? YOU THINK WEED IS WORSE THAN TABACCO???

You're a retard. Tobacco is a plant. Cigarettes are chemically made.

DeathscytheX - 12 Nov 2002 11:21 pm
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1st off you 2nd class dolt You dont need to experiment to know which one is worse.. its called Science.. me ignorant? ha.. look at you..

Do u actually think if pot was sold legally that they would all be hand rolled? ROTFLMAO of course not you fool.. they would be chemically made like Cigs.. as hei already stated Tobacco is a plant... at one time it was rolled like weed.

Weed is worse than tobacco, you dont know how moronic you sound... there are things called CHEMICALS that make up the plant.. and these good ole chems are far worse for you than anything in tobacco (dont get me wrong tobacco isnt that great for you either). If you would look at the science of this you would have known that. But no you're too busy getting high you dont know these things.

How accurate are the statistics considering its an illegal drug. secondly a very small percentage of people do pot compared to the large amount of americans that smoke you idiot, that why not as many people die from it... geez didnt think of that one did you?

Like 15x more people smoke cigs than joints.. put to put it in terms that your small mind can understand it...

If there were 100 guns in the world and only 4 knifes... which one would cause the most deaths?.......... well let me answer that for you because im afraid you might pick knifes....

the correct answer is Guns.

Go dance naked in poison oak.. its a pure plant from the ground. find out what happens then come back to me when u pass 4th grade.

Dont call people ignorant when you are yourself.. dont say people dont have a clue when you dont know what the hell you are saying.. and lastly dont call the Admin of the forum a Idiot unless your really dont want to be around here anymore... your IQ is smaller than Al Gore's left toe so shut up and go study this subject before you dare enter a debate with me.

This discussion is over.

End of Topic.