why doesn't Sesshomaru have a sword made from one of his own fangs? do you think he couldn't rely on his own power? or maybe the thought never occured to him? he knows tetsusaiga was broken and reforged with inuyasha's fang.. so why hasn't sesshomaru commissioned a great swordsmith like totosai or another (the world is huge and there could easily be other fine swordsmiths) to create a sword from his own fang? it could be quite powerful..

hmmm.... well
maybe he hasnt thought about it, hes too hung up on being pissed that Inu Yasha got the tet
or
maybe he's not old enough? I dunno how old Sessy really is :look:
or
???

he's a pretty boy. he just cant afford it :haha:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/cloud4cloud/toothlesssess.jpg

it all makes sense now! :rotflmao:

Why mess with the sexiness?! ;)

totosai will not make a sword for him.

He's too beautiful to remove any of his teeth. Mmm... Sesshomaru... :drool:

ILMAO!!! Omg...nice pic there, and Sesshy is so much older than Inuyasha, he's estimated to be around 70ish...so yeah, but he's probably not old enough to have a sword made just from his fang, remember Inuyasha's was just used as a filler, not for the whole sword.

in movie 3 Rin exibits a type of holy power. She throws a prayer bead at a demon and it fucks it up. I dont think Rin had any sort of powers before being revived by Tenseiga. This poses the question of wtf happens to a mortal revived by the sword O_O

Sesshomaru is incredibly smart, but it does piss me off when he's made to lose to Inu Yasha by the writers/creators. Blah.

he can defeat inu
why make a sword from my tooth when i can steal inu's sword which by birth right is mine cause i can and it gives me a reason to see my baby bro

you know it would be better if he still had both of his arm then he could kill inuyasha by useing two swords maybe^_^;

or he could get it cut off again. poor lord sesshoumaru.

He's actually beaten Inu Yasha so many times, like the time when he was looking for the bees who'ad stung Jakken, he met up with Inu Yasha and beat him. He probably doesn't need both his hands.

you dont really notice that he only has one arm any more

you dont he doesnt need it if he did he would have reatachted its a sign of weaknees to him having inu cut it off

If he used one of his fangs and he transformed to his full demon form he'd be missin a fang and he'd look like a freak, and plus he looks sooo cute with his teeth :drool:

thats true :happy:

I noe he would look so... so..... UNCUTE!O_O

that's hard to beleive, sesshoumaru uncute but it could happen :sad:

haha one fang missing

Sesshomaru doesn't talk that much and when he does, he doesn't laugh or show his teeth like Inu Yasha or some other characters would do. It may look different once he's transformed into a full demon though.

But when Inu Yasha unwittingly had Totosai pull one of his fangs, it grew back. Maybe with Sesshomaru it wouldn't.

Hmm true. The fang growing back is probably like his ability to heal and the fact that he's a dog demon, like Sesshomaru. So it wouldn't show in anycase for the latter.

Besides...if he had another sword made he would have 3 to carry around. But he also has that whip thing that comes out of his fingers.

he would not look different look at his father when i saw him dog form he didn't look different and he pulled out 3 fangs and he could carry 3 cause his father could in fact the maximu they can carry is 5 2 on each side and one on his back but he should reserve the back for so'unga to bad they destroyed it

Uhm...I didn't know that...

sorry dude

Hmm i never knew that ether oh well i wish i did...

watch movie 3

and one on his back but he should reserve the back for so'unga to bad they destroyed it
this has nothing to do with sesshomaru's swords and was pointless to add.

use the spoiler tags.

Sesshomaru's fang would grow back in less then a day, pretutrnatural healing powers n all.
Totosai has already refused to make him a sword so he is pretty s.o.l.

:nono: dont read unless you are sure

he could go to the man who forged Sou'nga cause totosai said he didn't make it so find who made cause he obviously can make better swords than totosai can it takes two of totosai's to beat one of his

But Its Coll When He Fights With One Hand And Be A Match With Inuyasha

mmm Don’t know if I should even post this but has anyone figured out why Sesshomaru doesn’t bring his father back with the sword? Would be crazy if he did lol. I’m guessing he can’t because his father’s body is no longer made of flesh and the underworld demons already ate his soul. ^_^;

if his dad was alive he would not be able to try to kill inuyasha he would not be able to try to took inuyashas sword

Well Kagura could bring him Back with her dance of the dead.
Any ways sesshomaru Toukujinn is strong enough.

mmm Don’t know if I should even post this but has anyone figured out why Sesshomaru doesn’t bring his father back with the sword? Would be crazy if he did lol. I’m guessing he can’t because his father’s body is no longer made of flesh and the underworld demons already ate his soul. ^_^;

I think that does have something to do with it. When he revived Rin and Jaken (not to mention when the Tenseiga saved him) their bodies were still intact.

But also, his father's remains were hidden in InuYasha's eye. I doubt Lord Sesshoumaru wanted to ask a favor of his "Half-breed" brother. When those two get near each other the fur just flies.

They found another way to get to the remains in episode 152.

Has Adult Swim reached episode 152?

I'm only able to catch InuYasha then.

there must be unspoken limitations to tenseiga.. maybe.. "you can revive a recently fallen soul but only until dawn of the following day" *shrugs*

I didn't quite understand what he did to Takemaru. in the 3rd movie what did he do sledge i saw him kill the soul eaters. But Why?

yes. sessy is far too sexy to have any teeth removed, even thought he grows another in like 3 seconds....tee hee besides if he made a sword that strong inuyasha would b long gone and what would we watch on tv?

movie three hasnt come out yet wher i am...it sux soooooo much!!! I DEMAND TO SEE SESSY AND INU FIGHTIN TOGETHER!!!

Don't double post. and order it.

You guys are all fruity! Sesshomaru doesn't strike me as the vain type, so I doubt that's what stopping him from forging a sword from his own fangs. Think about it! A sword made from his own fangs would be limited to his own power level or less. Sesshomaru knew that his own power alone would not match Tetsusaiga. Toutousai even said it once. "To wield a sword of your own fang is to wield your own power." Sesshomaru needed to find a demon with the power to overwhelm Tetsusaiga, which he found in Goshenki, and forged Tokijin. However, ever since Sesshomaru has had Tokijin made, he has been developing a heart for the human race, i.e. little Rin. I believe that this is forcing him to hold a level of respect for Inuyasha's love for humans, so he won't kill him with Tokijin. It's possible that Tenseiga is causing this much the same way Tetsusaiga keeps Inuyasha's demon-half restrained. Their father was a truly brilliant to work this out before he died. So long as the brothers keep their swords, it is futile for them to fight each other. As far as Seshomaru bringing his father back, my guess is he doesn't want to. Sesshomaru always seemed to shame his father for taking sides with the humans, so I doubt he has any intention whatsoever of bringing him back if he could.

~Tanoro

Here's another interesting twist that may play a part later. Tokijin's power comes from that of Goshenki, a Naraku incarnation. This means that the power of Sesshomaru's second sword is Naraku's power! I wonder what the result would be if Sesshomaru tried to use it on Naraku. It's possible it would have no effect at all. It is also possible that Naraku could even use the sword against Sesshomaru in some way. Fascinating how many ways that can go.

~Tanoro

Please don't double post.

I think Naraku can destroy it. Why? Because.

In episode 150-152 he gave this demon a trident made from his bones to kill Inu-yasha. When he betrayed her she tried to kill him wiht it he laughed and said its made of my bones. Then poof it disenigrated and he killed her.

I think it would have an effect...after seein that one epi wher sessy and inu almost killed naraku. were u watchin that one tanoro? good good epi. anyways the sword definately works on him. naraku had to resort as using Rin for a decoy to escape. was a very very disappointin ending

He probably knew they would not killl him he's saving his trump card for the last minute.

Sorry, I didn't see that episode. I'm starting to collect the DVDs. Kuwa made a valid point. Naraku COULD possibly have the power to destory Tokijin if he wanted to. It's possible he is either saving the occasion for sometime he can better use it, or he simply hasn't realized that the sword was made from Goshenki yet. Who knows? But it makes for a fascinating twist to consider for later episodes.

It does. When sesshomaru goes for the killing blow bam!!! No sword. Sesshomaru would tear Naraku to shreds if he finds out he's been manipulated.

That does bring up that possibilty that he does not know. You know sesshomaru will tell hime. He'll be like "How does it feel to lose to your own kin?" Then Naraku will know.

Naraku could not destroy Tokijin. in regards to that bone weapon, the weapon itself was made by and of naraku. as for tokijin, it was made from a fang of Goshenki. naraku holds onto the hearts of his incarnations. he control's their life and their death. not their teeth. his spawned off incarnations are seperate from him. they are their own demons.. he just holds power over them. lets say kagura was dead.. saying naraku could destroy the tokijin at will is like saying naraku could pop the teeth out of kagura's dead corpse with the blink of an eye.

ya i agree with sledge. if naraku COULD

(( sry comp flipped out. let me cont. post ))

ya i agree with sledge. if naraku COULD destroy tokijin he would've done it already. that way he could have kept Rin and saved her for decoy for later. no point in wasting good hostage.

Thats true. But Sledge what te hell did Sesshomaru do to takemaru's Corpes.

I disagree, Slim. If Naraku COULD destory Tokijin, he wouldn't waste that chance. He'd use it when timing is good. Such an advantage isn't one to cast away foolishly and Naraku has proven many times that foolishness is not one of his qualities. Not to mention, a chance to manipulate someone like that is much more time-efficient then trying to keep a hostage alive. If I were Naraku, I'd have let Rin escape and save the chance to use Tokijin's weakness against Sesshomaru when the time is right.
However, just because Goshenki was a separated incarnation of Naraku, it doesn't completely rule out the possibility of Naraku having control over his power within Tokijin. Each incarnation had control over their own will and physical body, but their powers are most likely linked. Kagura, Goshenki, Kanna, Juromaru, Kageromaru, Musou; the list goes on and each of them had GREAT powers that were their own challenges to Inuyasha, yet Naraku remained perfectly patient in dealing with even the most rebellious ones. Some of them, Naraku even KNEW were rebellious. If their powers are NOT linked in some way, then what insurance does Naraku have that they will obey except the threat of death? By the way, the threat of death didn't stop Kagura from betraying. There's GOT to be more to it then simply threatening them with their hearts. Such a threat simply doesn't go very far.

~Tanoro

kagura was able to betray naraku because she is a seperate demon. in fact, naraku locked her in a sub cellar for punishment. if naraku is not pleased with an incarnation, he either re-absorbs the demon back into his body or kills it. what would he care if one of his incarnations falters or die? does he feel their pain? he could care less, he just makes another one.

now think of kanna.. she is naraku's watchdog over his incarnations. with kanna, naraku knows everything his incarnations do.

being sentient beings, his incarnations value their lives. they either obey naraku or they die; or are re-absorbed.. and who knows what the hell kind of punishment naraku could make someone endure within his own body.

punishment a.
http://www.windscar.com/gallery/data/media/124/Kagura_Naraku.jpg

punishment b.
http://www.windscar.com/gallery/data/media/125/muso_absorbed.jpg


sux to be an incarnation of Naraku O_O

... and for the record, Sesshomaru conqured the aura Tokijin was giving off (the hatred the demon Goshinki had for Inu Yasha)
"I guess the sword has chosen me as it's new master"
Tokijin is now just a (albeit powerfull) sword. Naraku has no power or control of it at all.

ah true true.. the demonic aura the sword initially had was what remained of goshinki.. once it was gone, there was no more connection to the demon the sword was made from.

But the thing that still rouses questions for me, is the fact that, even though it is a demon sword, could another high power demon use the sword if Sesshomaru lost it or was killed?

i would assume so.. unless the sword has some sort of regection ability.. the sword smith that made Tokijin was an apprentice of Totosai, so it could be possible.

keep in mind that even tho the tetsaiga has a demon regection ability, totosai can hold it with no problem because he is the smith that made it.

I think sess's sword that heals is cool! i would rather heal than hurt.

But sledge lookey here the sword is not as powerfull as Sesshomaru wants. Could it be that Naraku is still controlling Goshenki's power? Goshenki broke tetsaiga if i'm correct yet The sword can't break it now? I know totosai would've made it stronger btu tokijin now has the power of sesshomaru which is superior to Inu's. Now the swords strongest attack can't even pierce Naraku's regular Barrier let alone his full demon one. Also notic that Naraku doesn't fear sesshomaru when he uses it yet when inu pulls out the ttsaiga he gets worried? Why is that if he knows Inu can't unleash Tetsaiga's full potential? Yet a sword that defeated Tetsaiga plenty of times is the least of his worries?

Not a bad way to put it, Kuwa. But here's what is most compelling to me. When Toutousai put a single fang from Inuyasha's mouth into Tetsusaiga, the sword became too heavy for him to use. Toutousai revealed that it was because Inuyasha couldn't control his own power, hence the reason he referred to Inuyasha as a newbie in controlling his father's power in Tetsusaiga. This strongly supports that there is a connection between the source of the power and the sword made from it.
As far as Goshenki, it remains to be seen whether or not Naraku can take their powers away at will. I would say he can because his incarnations don't respond to force, imprisonment, or threat of death, so there's got to be SOME way for him to maintain control over them. Keeping their hearts as a death threat is one, but Naraku isn't the type not to have a backup plan to keep control of his minions. It's no good to just keep making them and killing them when they rebel.
Also note the video game for PS2, Inuyasha: Secret of the Cursed Mask. During this game, Kagura reveals that she is immune to the miasma and Naraku reveals that he is immuned to Kagura's attacks. This supports a connection between their powers. Of course, Naraku kills Kagura near the end by destroying her heart. Having the ability to take the garbage out has nothing to do with your ability to regulate what goes into the garbage though.
I truly think Naraku can destroy Tokijin. Naraku's incarnations are a part of him, just like an alter-ego. Tokijin was made from an incarnation which simply makes it a part of Naraku too. The power which fuels Tokijin was from a demon made from Naraku, which means Naraku is indirectly the source of the power in Tokijin. Sesshomaru merely wields that power as a sword.
Now lets address why Sesshomaru was able to overwhelm Tokijin's aura, thus allowing him to control it. As I mentioned earlier, Naraku gave his incarnations control over their own body and free will. If Sesshomaru's will was stronger than Goshenki's, and we all know it is because Sesshomaru is the essence of godliness, then he would be able to control the sword. But whether or not Naraku has the ability to halt all power going to the sword remains to be seen. Also, if Kanna is Naraku's watchdog over his incarnations, then it's possible he DOES know about Tokijin's power and is saving that advantage for a special occasion. ;)

As far as I know, all of Naraku's incarnations are immune to Naraku's miasma. Each of his incarnations is a lil different. He has made incarnations of himself that wouldn't listen to him at all *Juromaru and Kageromaru*

If Naraku had any control of Tokijin at all he would have used to to shield his ass from the wind scar (think back to when he tried to steal Sesshomaru's body and Inu Yasha showed up.) instead he got sent home with a rutpure. :meh:

Greatly put tonoro. I think he could halt most of it but the rest of the power comes from sesshomaru. Like tetsaiga depending on the user the power varies so if the dad took his power the sword would losse more than half it strenght. But Inu's strenght would power the sword.

naraku is immune to all of his incarnation's attacks. as for his power and control over them, he doesn't need any. he is immune to them, he can kill them at will and they can do nothing to him. besides, the majority of his incarnations are made and spat down in inuyasha's path. once thats done, naraku knows which ones will die. he gave kagura the ability to fly away because she is the sole incarnation he uses for all his errands (that and the insects). and kanna is almost always at naraku's side. all the others are fodder placed somewhere strategically to weaken naraku's enemies. if an incarnation does something against his wishes (which they are capabale of doing because they are seperate entities), he destroys their heart, killing the demon. he will feel no loss. all he has to do is make another incarnation. *remember the episode wear naraku revealed this to kagura? he had jars on the wall, each of them filled with his essense, awaiting to be created into incarnations. it showed how useless her situtation was and how expendable she was.*

anyway, back to the point of this post, naraku is immune to all his incarnation's attacks. when sesshomaru attacks naraku with the Tokijin, naraku is damaged. Tokijin is not a part of naraku, it is not an incarnation, it was not made out of naraku.. naraku has no immunity to tokijin. its a sword. an inanimate object. if naraku could destroy the sword whenever he wanted to, he could also theoretically make goshinki's dead corpse rise from the ground and continue its attack. once the incarnation is dead, naraku has no control over it. and don't give me the "oh! the demon's head was alive when they made the sword and because of that, the sword is still susceptable to naraku's control" no.. the forging process required the creature to be alive for the tooth to be used. *remembers when totosai plucked inuyasha's fang* X'D

maybe inuyasha can blow up the tetsagai at will.. ;)

You're reading too much into it. While Inuyasha doesn't have the ability to destroy his sword at mere will, he DOES have the ability to retract its power, thus turning it into a more mobile size, which greatly decreases its effectiveness in battle. This was demonstrated quite thoroughly when Inuyasha first tried to battle Sesshomaru with Tetsusaiga. As far as Tokijin being an inanimate object, don't forget that Tenseiga is also just a sword by your definition, but it can't be used to take life at all, therefore cannot be referred to as "just a sword." The power which lies within the swords make it impossible to consider only their physical counterparts as "just swords."
You make a strong case about what Naraku usually does with his incarnations and what some of their purposes seem to be. However, there is still no proof as to whether or not Naraku has the ability to restract their powers at will, thus rendering Tokijin useless or dangerous to use against Naraku.
As for Naraku making Goshenki's corpse rise, I have two responses to that. Theoretically, Naraku would need to HAVE the powers that he gives his incarnations in order to give them to his incarnations. With that in mind, Kagura is able to raise the dead as demonstrated by the slaughter of Koga's pack, so it's prudent to assume Naraku can as well. Second response, we're talking about the connection between their powers, not their bodies. We've already determined that Naraku gave his incarnations control over their own will and bodies. Lets stop confusing each other by saying Naraku can "destroy" Tokijin. We're trying to debate on whether or not it would be dangerous for Sesshomaru to even use it on Naraku, because it'd be theoretically possible for its powers to be retracted or turned back on Sesshomaru if Naraku does have such a connection with his incarnations' powers.
Now for my daily finale. You still insist that a sword made from a demon made from Naraku isn't made from Naraku? Everytime a cow is butchered and made into beef, you eat it for protein and nutrition. With this in mind, the protein and nutrition is FROM the cow via the beef! The benefit that is gained from eating the processed and cooked meat is from the cow, just as the source of Tokijin's power that comes to benefit Sesshomaru came from Naraku via Goshenki. It is a sensible cycle to consider.
I disagree with you on that one, Kuwa. Regardless of anything, the swords are tools and so are the powers that are applied to them. Inuyasha's sword attacks remain relatively equal in intensity throughout most of the series regardless of how much stronger Inuyasha himself got. They only changed in intensity when Inuyasha applied something external to them, like his own fang or the orb he applied to turn the blade red. This supports that it's a matter of mastering the sword and its powers and not adding your own powers to it as you use it. In Tetsusaiga's case, however, Inuyasha HAS contributed a fang, so it wouldn't lose all power if Inuyasha's father were to return and retract it in the theorectical way. However, this is NOT the case with Tokijin. Tokijin is ALL Goshenki and nothing else has been applied to the sword, so if his powers carry some unseen or undiscovered weakness against Naraku, it'd be a total one.

nice points. i like a good debate. ;)

1) its not inuyasha's ability. its the swords ability.. sesshomaru could retract the tetsaiga's power at will as well, if not for the demon regection ability).

sesshomaru using a human arm to weild tetsaigai:
http://www.windscar.com/gallery/data/media/40/inuyasha179.jpg

2) Tenseiga is a sword. a helluva powerful sword.. but still just a sword. now So'ounga on the other hand.. that sword is more than just a sword. it is more or less a demon. it can speak and possess it's wielder..

http://www.windscar.com/gallery/data/media/98/Inuyasha_movie3_13.jpg

Goshiniki's demonic aura still remained after the forging process and Tokijin was used by the swordsmith to battle in a 'possessed state.' (the demonic aura infected the swordsmith as he forged the sword, pulled the teeth, etc.) the leftover demonic aura was destroyed.. and thus tokijin is just a sword.

3) naraku needs to HAVE the powers he bestoys upon his incarnations, but that does not mean he KEEPS the powers of his incarnations. naraku has a body made of hundreds of thousands of demons.. he keeps the strongest for himself, discards weaker parts all the time and bundles a bunch of them together to make incarnations. all of his incarnations are weaker than him. his incarnations are the regected parts from his ever evolving body. the powers he gives his incarnations are powers that are no longer needed by him.

4) Sesshomaru has used tokijin on Naraku. he regected naraku's assimilation thanks to tokijin. naraku wanted to absorb sesshomaru's body but sesshomaru fended him off thanks to tokijin.. (naraku even teased inuyasha talking about how his brother is now a part of him, etc. etc.. sesshomaru blasts with tokijin, resulted with a surprised look on naraku's face.. sesshomaru attacks again, naraku attempts to defend, tokijin blasts naraku... and before you know it naraku has been blasted by both the tetsaigai and tokijin.) also, when inuyasha showed up to attack during naraku's 'absorb sesshomaru scheme' naraku was completely surprised by inuyasha's appearance.. if naraku still retained goshinki's mind reading ability, he would have sensed inuyasha before he even broke thru his barrier.

Now for my daily finale. You still insist that a sword made from a demon made from Naraku isn't made from Naraku? Everytime a cow is butchered and made into beef, you eat it for protein and nutrition. With this in mind, the protein and nutrition is FROM the cow via the beef! The benefit that is gained from eating the processed and cooked meat is from the cow, just as the source of Tokijin's power that comes to benefit Sesshomaru came from Naraku via Goshenki. It is a sensible cycle to consider.

ah ha.. now think of this.. aside from comparing goshenki to a piece of beef cut from the cow.. think of goshinki as the calf spawned off from the cow. now i kill that calf and eat the veal.. i get the protein and nutrition, but not from the cow.. from the calf. and just as the calf would listen to the cow, goshinki listens to naraku.

my final thoughts for the day.. goshinki is seperate from naraku via body and powers. a sword made from goshinki's teeth would inherit some of goshinki's power and physical durability but it would not have any limitations or restrictions via naraku. the sword smith created tokijin from bones. just as a demon has powers, the sword smith used his powers to create tokijin and give it the abilities it has. also, sesshomaru is an old guy and an extremely intelligent one. he would never use a sword that could be used against him or fail him.

damn... you just got served

1.> You can't possibly say that each sword is merely a sword. If that were true, than Sesshomaru wouldn't have needed Tokijin in the first place. He would've been able to overwhelm Tokijin with any cruddy sword. It's the powers of Goshenki he needed because they proved effective against Tetsusaiga. This supports that Goshenki's lifeforce is still in it. I don't know about So-ounga, though. I missed that one. However, just because So-ounga could speak and possess, that doesn't mean the other swords aren't alive because they can't. Trees cannot speak or possess, but they are alive. But in either case, Tokijin's aura was NOT destroyed. It was merely overwhelmed by Sesshomaru's when he grasped the handle. It still has life in it and I bet it could still possess someone if Sesshomaru were to lend it to anyone else.
2> You made a good debate over Naraku's incarnations being made from his rejected parts, however this point counter-proved your debate about the cow and calf. Goshenki was an incarnation, NOT an offspring! Naraku didn't mate with any female to give birth to him. He didn't receive Goshenki from the stork. He didn't go to a cabbage patch and pluck Goshenki out of the ground. He was an incarnation made from Naraku's body!
Lets compare demonic reincarnation to the theories of human reincarnation for one moment. Cases of human reincarnation are heard worldwide and each one that is proven is done so by their memories of past lives that couldn't possibly have been known in this one. This supports that the mind is linked between two incarnations so that the future incarnations can maintain the memories of the past. Cases of past life regression have also been known to progress to future life times as well. This attribute is shown by Naraku's ability to see what his incarnations and his Saimyosho can see. Their minds are linked! If knowledge is power, than their powers are linked as well!
3> As for Sesshomaru using Tokijin on Naraku, I've already explained a few possibilities. Naraku is well known for elaborate the twisting plots, so it's still possible that he allowed it all to happen for some reason or another. The suprised look on Naraku's face after getting blasted by Tokijin could also be interpretted several ways.
No matter how you look at it, we're both making a lot of assumptions as to what we can believe as indicators to this. Who knows where it'll go? It's really up to the writer. The fact that Tokijin came from Naraku may or may not play a role later in the series. We can debate demonic anatomy and the nature of demonic incarnation rituals, but it still won't prove one way or another if Tokijin can be used against Sesshomaru.

1) trees are alive, but the park benches made from their wood is not. just as goshinki was alive, but the sword made from his teeth is not. tokijin does not have goshinki's aura, its just a sword with abilities bestoyed upon it by the sword smith that forged it. if tokijin had goshinki's powers, sesshomaru would be able to read minds just from having it on his side or holding its handle.

2) naraku is male and female, spider and demon, dog and cat, all things absorbed into naraku are a part of naraku.. at the core of naraku is onijumo, a male personality yes, but his body is not restricted to sexes.. my point about the calf and the cow is that they are seperate creatures, one created from the other. i'm not saying naraku birthed goshinki from a uterus.



Heres a couple theories:

1) - Tensaiga and Tetsaiga were made from Inuyasha's father's fangs. Once the swords were forged, their powers were seperate from the father's. Once the father died, the swords retained their power.

- Totosai made Tensaiga and Tetsaiga.. and Totosai's apprentice made Tokijin using the same forging method as Totosai. And just as the power of inuyasha's father's swords were seperate from the father, the power of tokijin is seperate from goshinki and thus seperate from naraku in any way.


2) - Naraku inflicted Miroku's grandfather with the wind tunnel. Which means Naraku HAD that power to bestow. Naraku & the wind tunnel are connected. If Naraku dies, the wind tunnel vanishes (as per movie 2), but even tho they are connected, Naraku does not have the ability to control the windtunnel's powers or he would have negated its effects and prevented miroku from screwing up his elaborate plans of absorbing a powerful demon in movie 2.

- The point is that even tho naraku can do a variety of things, he cannot do everything. he has limitations like everyone else in the series. if he can't dispell or control the windtunnel, something he himself directly created, then I don't see how its possible he could ever dispell or control the power of tokijin, something that was forged out of the remains of something naraku spawned.



Naraku's only option is to get something to counter tokijin's power, much like naraku has the poison insects to counter the windtunnel.




No matter how you look at it, we're both making a lot of assumptions as to what we can believe as indicators to this. Who knows where it'll go? It's really up to the writer. The fact that Tokijin came from Naraku may or may not play a role later in the series. We can debate demonic anatomy and the nature of demonic incarnation rituals, but it still won't prove one way or another if Tokijin can be used against Sesshomaru.

true enough, but thats whats so fun about a debate, i haven't enjoyed a topic like this since a kuwabara debate i participated in. ^__^

Lol! You love a good roast, huh? Yeah, I love debating too. It's fun when you can confuse someone until they forget which way is up. :-D You're a tough cookie to crack, but you lose the big picture a lot by giving yourself tunnel vision with too many details. The truth is, Naraku is no ordinary demon because he was neither born nor created by another demon. He was created from a human by way of thousands of demons, making his powers almost impossible to predict. Miroku even noticed that there was a strong demonic presense still in the very spot where Onigumo laid in the cave, where grass refuses to grow. That supports an unusual connection between Naraku and that spot. Naraku is a wierdo even among demons. Let it be unpredictable! The suprise makes the show twice as good. ;)


Hey! To anyone who hasn't played Inuyasha: Secret of the Cursed Mask for PS2, get it and play it! It's a great game! This RPG is rediculously easy, but the story is pretty good. You even get several cracks at Naraku throughout the game, but you only win the last two. Also, Rumiko created two new sibling characters JUST for this game named Kaname and Michiru Kururugi. Both have the ability to use the mysterious power known as Shikigami. Their attacks are pretty crappy, but Kaname is as HOT as Kagome is! :D Inuyasha's attacks are the ever familiar ones used in the series: Iron Reaver Soul Stealer, Blades of Blood, Wind Scar, Backlash Wave, etc. You even get Sesshomaru for one small part. He is untouchable! The game itself consist of a lot of pretty simple battles and fairly easy scenerios to work through. One can beat it in a day if you lay off the side questing. The game also lets you develop friendships between the characters. Also, you get fully animated co-op attacks between characters as their friendships develop. Check it out! It's not a bad game for your serious Inuyasha fan.
http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/inuyashamaskofjuso/screenindex.html

I just noticed something. I haven't seen Inuyasha use Blades of Blood in AGES!

i haven't enjoyed a topic like this since a kuwabara debate i participated in. ^__^

That wouldn't happen to be the one you and I had about Kuwabara vs Krillin, would it?:p

You guys really know your stuff...This debate is answering just as many questions(for me, anyway) as it is creating. I hope this continues, it's been fun to read! :happy:

Lol! I'm glad you're enjoying this, Sabe. I guess Sledg and I should roast again some time soon. Everyone seems to like watching. :-P

definitely. ^__^

That wouldn't happen to be the one you and I had about Kuwabara vs Krillin, would it?:p

thats the one alright. :happy:

It's just great to see a pair of great minds battle using logic and intelligence; unlike some of the brainless flame wars between two certian other members who shall remain nameless... Kuwabara/ Cowtrigger...

Ya know Sledge...you and I really got into that, huh? I look forward to our next debate!

I don't know if Sledg wants to keep this debate going, but I couldn't help myself but to reply to his last entry addressing it.

You said that trees are alive but wooden objects made from them are not. You related this to Tokijin not being alive, simply made from Goshenki's teeth. And that Tokijin didn't have Goshenki's aura, just power bestowed by Kaijimbo.

Honestly, none of that made any sense. For one, if Tokijin didn't contain Goshenki's essence and power, then Kaijimbo would not have made a big deal out of Goshenki's head being dead when Sesshomaru brought it. This means that the fangs MUST have life in them for the forging process to work because he needed more than just the raw material that were Goshenki's fangs. Also, if that wasn't Goshenki's aura on the sword, then why did Kaijimbo go after Inuyasha with it? He was possessed by Goshenki, of course, as thoroughly demonstrated in that episode! This means that the sword STILL HAS Goshenki's lifeforce IN IT! Even after being dealt a death-blow, Kaijimbo continued to attack. The SWORD was demonstrating a measure of desire, meaning IT WAS ALIVE.

Once again, it was apparently critical for Sesshomaru to choose the right demon to forge this sword. Otherwise, having Kaijimbo at his disposal, anyone's fang would've sufficed, so it isn't the smith's power that grants the sword's power. They merely forge the blade.
As I said before, to bestow one's power into an object, it would be limited to your own power or less. With this in mind, Tokijin most likely didn't inherit the mind reading ability of Goshenki. Either that, or this is an advanced ability of Tokijin that Sesshomaru either doesn't know about or doesn't care.

NEW TOPIC
Hey, I just thought of something else that might play a role around the end of the series. I once wrote a fiction story of my own that contained two brothers that beared the powers of Light and Darkness. The brothers' ultimate power came from the use of both Light and Darkness together in unison. A similar twist is also seen in Digimon Frontier when the final villain, Lucemon, used Light and Darkness in an attack known as "Ultimate Sacrifice." It makes me wonder just what sort of effect would take place if both Inuyasha and Sesshomaru struck down an enemy in unison with the Tetsusaiga and Tensiega. Would their powers cancel each other out or would the result be a form of "ultimate purification" or something of those lines? I would think, with their powers being from the same source, that they would support each other when aimed in a common direction. We've seen that the Tensiega can cancel out the Tetsusaiga if they are aimed at each other, but what if they are not? It's been demonstrated by the natures of the swords that their father didn't want the brothers to fight. With this in mind, I'd assume that their working together would net some additional benefit planned by their father as well. "Good doggies get a treat if they get along and not fight." ;) Just imagine that as an ultimate attack bearing the powers of both brothers and their father. It just might be this combo that finally takes out Naraku. Sledg, I hope you're ready for this one! ;)

goshinki's head was still alive, goshinki had mind abilities.. now imagine his living head just sitting there as someone is ripping its teeth from its very mouth.. goshinki's rage, humiliation and vengance were eminating from his mind and served as a kind of possession in the end. thats why he went after inuyasha to kill him. the demonic aura came from the dying head, and lingured around them manipulating them until it could do no more.

could goshinki's teeth shoot a wave of energy? could inuyasha's father bite someone back to life?

i don't think they could.. thats why sesshomaru and his father commissioned their swords to be made. the demonic swordsmithing techniques are the key. just as some demons can turn into massive huge beasts and lay waste to entire countrysides.. other demons are just as powerful, but not in such a straight forward way. while totosai and his apprentice could not decimate armies by waving a hand, the weapons they forge can.

as for why they need the donor to be alive at the time, *shrug* when totosai grabbed inuyasha's fang from his mouth, he had no need for his head or demonic aura. he even told him to come back later. their smithing arts are not talked about much in the series.. which is what leads us to our debates and assumptions. so many unanswered things and so many possibilities. ;)

Once again, it was apparently critical for Sesshomaru to choose the right demon to forge this sword. Otherwise, having Kaijimbo at his disposal, anyone's fang would've sufficed, so it isn't the smith's power that grants the sword's power. They merely forge the blade.

choosing goshinki was vital to sesshomaru's plan for forging a new sword. he wanted a sword that could withstand tetsaigai's attack, if not defeat it outright. and goshinki's teeth were the key.. their durability and power served as the ultimate base for a new sword. a sword made from any other material would simply break beneath tetsaigai's attack. with tokijin made from such a strong material, sesshomaru knows his sword will not break or fail him when he battles against inuyasha.


...if both Inuyasha and Sesshomaru struck down an enemy in unison with the Tetsusaiga and Tensiega...

watch movie 3, Swords of an Honorable Ruler and you'll get your answer. ;)

Really? I haven't seen the movies. Are they out on DVD yet?

Anyway, we seem to be debating now whether or not the swords have the power of their donors or if their powers came from the forging process. You said Goshenki had "mind abilities." You're distorting the truth when you say that. Goshenki could READ minds. And if the possession had something to do with the head and not the teeth, the writer surely would've indicated this by showing the head on Kaijimbo's floor, glowing or something. But the writer didn't. It was the sword that glowed only, thus indicating the sword as the source of the problem. Which is why the problem ceased when Sesshomaru overwhelmed the aura on the sword. The sword even spoke through Kaijimbo, didn't it! That's how Inuyasha realized it was made from Goshenki.
On that note, you asked if Goshenki could shoot a wave of energy from his teeth or Inuyasha's father biting someone back to life. Come on! The whole series has thoroughly demonstrated that a piece of a demon has the essense of its powers. Remember that village of idiots that was plagued by a demon bear who was killed years earlier, but they kept the skin as some failed tourist attraction? Could the SKIN haunt the village? Apparently for demons, it can. And it was NOT forged into anything, but it still had powers.

while totosai and his apprentice could not decimate armies by waving a hand, the weapons they forge can.

This also disproves your own debate. You're beating yourself up here! That point clearly supports that the weapons they make have powers of their own based on the materials they used. Otherwise, ANY sword they made would have such power. If you cut a demon's arm off, you are holding a piece of its power along with a piece of its body. Make a weapon out of that piece, you now hold a piece of its power in the form of a weapon.
as for why they need the donor to be alive at the time, *shrug* when totosai grabbed inuyasha's fang from his mouth, he had no need for his head or demonic aura. he even told him to come back later.
I wonder why. Maybe because...INUYASHA IS ALIVE!!!! And thus, his fang HAD that piece of power that every demon part has. It DID have an aura! It simply wasn't pointed out. Toutousai didn't need Inuyasha's head. Kaijimbo didn't need the head, either. He needed the teeth with some lifeforce in them. Check this out:

Dead demon teeth = tough sword, no lifeforce, thus no power
living demon teeth = tough sword, WITH lifeforce, thus VERY powerful

you guys should get together and write a book about ancient mythical swords...
really...

Or two even ^_^ ... very informative topic, these last few posts.

just my 2 cents...
After Totosai fixes Tetsusaiga using Inuyasha's fang, the sword is heavier and quite difficult for Inuyasha to use at first. The sword smiths explination was ... Inuyasha had been relying on his fathers strength and power to protect him. The reforged sword was not dependent on fathers power, it was all about Inuyasha's power (master your own fang)
Bearing that in mind, Sesshomaru would not rely on any other demons power to strengthen himself. He banished the evil (Goshinki) aura from Tokijin using his own demon powers thus infusing Tokijin with his own demonic power.
He wanted Tokijin formed from Goshinki's teeth because they were strong enough to break Tetsusaiga. It had nothing to do with Goshenki personally, or Naraku either for that matter. If Sesshomaru can't have Tetsusaiga and Inuyasha uses it like a club ^_^; then maybe busting Tetsusaiga up is for the best. (He wanted to use Tokijin to break Tetsusaiga if he deemed it necessary)

That explanation works as well. But in either case, the swords do contain lifeforce from their donors. It's not particularly clear whether Sesshomaru suppressed Goshenki's aura or banished it. We'll probably find that out if anyone else touches it in some later episode.

Fedic's repeat of one of my previous points also applies. If Inuyasha's fang made his sword too heavy until he was able to master it his own power, then it supports that the power of the sword is his and not the smith's. Thanks for bringing that up again, Fedic.

Valiant Points Made by the both of Sledge and Tonoro. But sorry Sledge even after reading all your post I disagree with you. Even some of your reference’s were contrary to you point. For example the bench and the tree. This is what happens with the tree and bench’s the bench is created form a dead tree right? Right! But the Tokijin was made from a fang with Goshenki’s life energy. Now the other thing you said was can “Goshenki do a blast with his teeth or could the Inu no Taishou bite someone to life.” Of course not but something in them caused that power right? How else could Sou’unga make Zombies while Totosai did not make it? That question comes for the so called power of the forger.

Totosai and Kaijimbo’s powers had nothing to really do with the power of the swords. Look at Totosai the only apparent power he seems to have that can do damage is his fire breath? The rest comes from the wielder thus that is possibly why Sesshomaru can’t/won’t forge a sword from his fangs. Remember the Inu no Taishou was a Daoi Youkai Thus his powers immense so there is no telling what he is capable cause the series does not say. Goshenki can read minds so the sword has some mental abilities. How else would the sword be able to posses Kaijimbo.

As far as the shooting of energy that supports my previous statement where I said that the sword user’s energy is also put into the sword to use it. That’s where I disagree with you Tonoro. You said that is not true but it is, can Miroku take the Tetsaiga and do the Wind Scar? I think not. Or can Naraku take the Tetsaiga and do the Backlash Wave? I don’t think so. Before you go and say it’s because it’s Inu-yasha’s father fang Think Sesshomaru and Tokijin.

Now that I have Clarified things. Here is my two cents on Naraku and Tokijin. They needed Goshenki’s life force to forge the sword from his fang. So that means his life force is still alive in the sword it’s just overwhelmed by Sesshomaru’s Powers. But if anyone weaker were to take the sword it would Possess that being. Thus proven Goshenki’s life force is still present. If that’s not enough prove for you in Movie three While Sou’unga pounded the crap out of Tensaiga Takemaru told him his Father’s fang was crying thus proven it has the

father’s life force if that isn’t enough. Here’s this scenario why does Tetsaiga or Tensaiga shake when they want to say something or are excited or want to be used? Wait only living beings can do those things unless the object has a Life fore.

With that Proven the Sword does have life force so Naraku still has dominion of his incarnations life no matter what FORM they are in. As long as they are alive he can manipulate them you said it yourself Sledge. To sum it all up Goshenki’s body may be dead but his life energy is alive in another form so The Inu no Taishou is dead but his life energy is not dead. Why else would he be so calm about dying in Movie 3.

I hope that answered everyone’s Question because I Thoroughly thought about this.

Sabe I heard your whisper and it was not brainless I was thoughtless he just pissed me of that’s why I Posted blindly.

That Kuwabara Krillen Topic is very Memorable it’s the reason I joined AC. I was looking for actual fanfics about DBZ and YYH then I stumbled on to the greatest think on the Net Ancient Clan forums.

As far as the shooting of energy that supports my previous statement where I said that the sword user’s energy is also put into the sword to use it. That’s where I disagree with you Tonoro. You said that is not true but it is, can Miroku take the Tetsaiga and do the Wind Scar? I think not. Or can Naraku take the Tetsaiga and do the Backlash Wave? I don’t think so. Before you go and say it’s because it’s Inu-yasha’s father fang Think Sesshomaru and Tokijin.


True, but look at it this way. Inuyasha and Sesshomaru have BOTH used the Wind Scar at some point, but only while holding Tetsusaiga. This means that only Tetsusaiga has the power to do it.

On that note, Tetsusaiga was made so that only Inuyasha would be able to wield it, with exception of that human arm bearing a jewel shard that Sesshomaru used. Tokijin, on the other hand, can only be wielded by someone strong enough to overwhelm its possessive nature. They both have there "chosen ones," but they are chosen in different ways.

I'm curious because I don't remember well or am unsure - but, has anyone else yielded the Tetsusaiga and made it transform, other than Inu or Sessy ? *ponders*

i agree with kuwabara in the sense that the weilder of the sword uses their energy in the attacks.. i don't think the sword itself has the demonic energy of its source material, but instead the sword itself acts as a conduit to enhance and project the power of the sword weilder, much like a wizard has a staff to empower his spells.

Valiant Points Made by the both of Sledge and Tonoro. But sorry Sledge even after reading all your post I disagree with you. Even some of your reference’s were contrary to you point. For example the bench and the tree. This is what happens with the tree and bench’s the bench is created form a dead tree right? Right! But the Tokijin was made from a fang with Goshenki’s life energy.

O_o you take a living tree.. cut it down, make a bench. you take a living demon's head, cut out the teeth, make a sword from it.. i don't see whats so complicated about that. both things are made from living things. O_o i was trying to get you guys to see my point is source material. it was part of an original living thing, but it has been changed and is now a completely different object. now.. think of this.. tetsaiga's sheath was made from a demon tree, its source material has nothing in common with inuyasha's father's fang.. yet the sheath was made specifically to summon and contain the tetsaiga. the sheath won't do that for any sword.. just the tetsaiga, who could make the sheath capable of doing that, if not for the smith that made the sheath (totosai).

and as for Tetsaiga's and Tensaiga' reactions.. they react when there is something for them to react to.. such as the undead panther demon, tensaiga has the power to dispell such creature's powers, (think of using a phenix down on an undead monster in final fantasy). because of the power of the undead creature tensaiga was reacting. same with all the other times the swords shake.. they are reacting to something in the vicinity.. and usually the two swords are reacting to one another.

With that Proven the Sword does have life force so Naraku still has dominion of his incarnations life no matter what FORM they are in. As long as they are alive he can manipulate them you said it yourself Sledge. To sum it all up Goshenki’s body may be dead but his life energy is alive in another form so The Inu no Taishou is dead but his life energy is not dead. Why else would he be so calm about dying in Movie 3.

yes alive.. i didn't say life force. "his life energy is alive in another form" according to that statement, if that was the case, wouldn't that be one of the things accomplished in the forging process of the sword?

This also disproves your own debate. You're beating yourself up here! That point clearly supports that the weapons they make have powers of their own based on the materials they used. Otherwise, ANY sword they made would have such power. If you cut a demon's arm off, you are holding a piece of its power along with a piece of its body. Make a weapon out of that piece, you now hold a piece of its power in the form of a weapon.

O_o disproves my own debate? my debate was that naraku could not destroy or dispell tokijin's power. i'm simply throwing out all kinds of possible scenerios all of which cannot be proved because they are theories.

the teeth of goshinki were used as the base of a powerful weapon. lets say sesshomaru took those teeth to joe's swordsmith shack.. would joe be able to forge that weapon to make it blast energy? would he even be able to forge teeth into a blade?

the more powerful the source material, the stronger the sword they forge.

I wonder why. Maybe because...INUYASHA IS ALIVE!!!! And thus, his fang HAD that piece of power that every demon part has. It DID have an aura! It simply wasn't pointed out. Toutousai didn't need Inuyasha's head. Kaijimbo didn't need the head, either. He needed the teeth with some lifeforce in them. Check this out:

Dead demon teeth = tough sword, no lifeforce, thus no power
living demon teeth = tough sword, WITH lifeforce, thus VERY powerful

a good theory. thus i repeat my initial.. *shrug* nothing was stated about it in the series. everything in this topic is good theories and hypothesis.


but, lets theorize on what you guys are saying.. sesshomaru carries around a sword that reeks of goshinki's/naraku's life force and will only burden him in his greatest moment of need. he carries a sword made out of the creature he dispises the most and has blind faith in it. he relys on naraku's power backed up with his own? O_o it doesn't sound right to me. hes too proud to rely on others.


after reading everything in this topic (and re-watching a couple episodes), i think my final conclusion is this..

i think the sword was made from a powerful demon, life force may have been a requirement to forge teeth. *shrugs* anime swordsmiths are the sh*t. ^_~ and the end result is a powerful sword sesshomaru can use freely with no worries about it's failure. after the sword was initially made, the demonic aura of goshinki clung to it like residue. when Kaijimbo died fighting inuyasha, he was using the sword in a berserked state of mind because he was overcome by the evil aura. sesshomaru's own aura was so overpowering it dispelled the aura and he claimed the sword. the base of the sword is the reason it is so powerful. sesshomaru's fang is not in the sword and the power of tokijin comes from goshinki (durability) and the swordsmith's techniques which greatly amplifies the power of the wielder.

sesshomaru wanted totosai to make the sword for him, because he knew the end result would be amazing.. instead he got the second best. i believe the swordsmith has alot to do with the sword's strength. sesshomaru can use tensaiga to revive, but not kill.. totosai made it that way (the sword most likely uses sesshomaru's energy to empower it) and totosai's apprentice made tokijin to kill (its attack is probably relative to the weilder's power and techniques). naraku is immune to his incarnation's attacks, so whatever process the swordsmith uses is amazing, because the end result is no longer teeth.. its a sword. a sword that can damage naraku physically. if any part of goshinki's/naraku's power remained in the sword, naraku would not have taken damage. i think tokijin is a powerful sword sesshomaru will always carry with him because it can hold its own against a powered up tetsaigai and he'll be able to kill naraku with it.

attached are two images.. sesshomaru attacking naraku with tokijin. i believe that energy blast is all sesshomaru, enhanced and empowered by the sword. you may also notice that the attack itself is incredibly similar to the wind scar. and after that attack, naraku is so crippled that he has to escape into the mountains.

*Totosai created Tetsusaiga for InuYasha's dad, it's primary function was to protect humans from demons. Dad, Inu and Sessy have all been able to transform the sword. After the father died Tetsusaiga was hidden in his tomb where it stayed untouched until the brothers got there and Kagome pulled it free.

Totosai taught Kijimbo to be a smith. Durring the waring eras, a good swordsmith was highly revered. Japanese stories and games where characters are swordsmen almost always have the ultimate sword/smith like say... MASAMUNE!!!
Totosai cut ties with Kijimbo after the apprentace murdered children to soak a sword in their blood (he wanted to create a sword that longed to be bloody)
Totosai refused to make Sesshomaru a sword so he took Goshinki's head to Kijimbo. Kijimbo was more then happy to make the sword, working closely with Goshinki's demonic energy. Unlike the demon slayers who exceorsize the bones/hides of demons before they use them, Kijimbo just went right to making the weapon out of the teeth that broke Tetsusaiga. His own evil intentions and Goshinki's hatred of Inu Yasha, they both wanted a bloody revenge and Tokijin was the finished product.
The sword wanted Inu's blood so badly it was able to take control of Kijimbo, not that that guy would put up a fight. He thought Tokijin was perfect. Even after Kijimbo was dusted Tokijin still pulsed with an evil aura. Nobody can get near it or destroy it.
Sesshomaru sama shows up, walks right up to it, picks it up and the evil aura disapates, taken over by Sesshomaru. The swords "evil aura" was like fly shit on the breeze to Sesshomaru. He is a much more powerfull demon then hes given credit for. Sesshomaru is in total control of Tokijin, it is a conduit of his power and whats more is he is the swords master. It's not like if he sets it down Tokijin's evil aura will come back. -_-;

Sesshomaru's Demonic Powers
Movie 3 spoilers
In movie 3, a demon hand was necessary to weild Sou'unga so Takemaru uses Sesshomaru's left arm. Sesshomaru had no control over the arm. The arm added to Sou'unga and Takemaru's power.
Even after Takemaru is destroyed Sesshomaru's arm still has enough demonic power in it for the sword to continue to fight against Sesshomaru.
Naraku is weaker then Sesshomaru, he is only a half demon. Even if Naraku/Goshinki or even Kijimbo were in the sword, Naraku still could not control it. If a demon as strong as Sesshomaru can't control an arm that was chopped off his body, there is no way a 1/2 demon is going to control an object made from teeth.

We're not talking about Naraku controlling an object made from teeth. We're talking about whether or not Naraku has the ability to control the powers of his incarnations. I like to think that as Goshenki was an incarnation of Naraku, Tokijin is also an incarnation of Naraku. If Naraku can still control its power, he can use it against Sesshomaru. As far as Sesshomaru's left arm, it was under the control of Sou'unga. I haven't seen the movie, so I wouldn't know the extent of Sou'unga's power, but I assume Sou'unga took control of the arm just as Sesshomaru took control of Tokijin.

We're not talking about Naraku controlling an object made from teeth.
Yes we are, this is a thread about swords. :look:

We're talking about whether or not Naraku has the ability to control the powers of his incarnations.
No, he does not. The powers bestowed upon his incarnations are unique to each new demon, their powers are their own; their will is their own.
eg. Naraku cannot see without Kanna's mirror and her showing him what he wants/needs to see.
Kagura hit him Naraku with dance of Blades and all it did was rip his shirt. Jeroumaru and Kageromaru didn't listen to Naraku at all, they took his head off at the first convienient oppertunity. If Naraku were able to control their power, he wouldn't have been attacked by it in the first place.
His incarnations are his servents and if they do not know their place/get killed Naraku will suck them back in and then he would have the power for himself.

I like to think that as Goshenki was an incarnation of Naraku, Tokijin is also an incarnation of Naraku.
Goshinki is an incarnation of Naraku. He was made from Naraku made from the 1/2 demons "essence"
Tokijin isn't just Goshinki's teeth, it is a product of Kijimbo's abilitys to craft a powerfull sword. If anything, Tolkijin would be an 'incarnation' of the swordsmith Kijimbo and the demon Goshinki combined.
There was no essence used in Tokijin, just teeth with incredable duribility. The demon aura that stayed withen the teeth made sword want only one thing. Kill Inu Yasha.

Since you guys like to complare it to hacking down trees...
Tokijin would not be made up as one solid piece of wood; it is not all one fang. It would be more like particle board, all the shavings jumbled together and compressed. The only part of Goshinki left within the teeth after the forgeing process was the desire to kill Inu Yasha.

You apparently haven't been following the thread much lately. This is a thread concerning the swords AND the power they possess. Tokijin attacked Inuyasha even after Kaijimbo was killed, so the sword DID have life in it. It DID have essence. The ability to need and desire are abilities of that which possesses life. We've already established that Kiajimbo and Toutousai can make powerful weapons depending on the matieral they use, but they, themselves, are NOT all that powerful. This supports that the greatest power lies in the swords, NOT the smith.
If Kagura's Dance of Blade is ineffective against Naraku, then it stands to chance that Tokijin has a weakness against him too. However, this remains to be seen as of now. Also, Juromaru used a physical attack on Naraku, not any special powers. Naraku is simply NOT a normal demon, so it's safe to say that we've probably not seen the extent of his powers YET.

Tokijin would not be made up as one solid piece of wood; it is not all one fang. It would be more like particle board, all the shavings jumbled together and compressed. The only part of Goshinki left within the teeth after the forgeing process was the desire to kill Inu Yasha.

You obviously don't know much about blacksmithing either. I'm a sword collector and a practicing swordsman of several Japanese styles. While I don't consider myself a GREAT swordsman of skill, my knowledge of smithing and maintenance is excellent. I assure you that swords made as you describe can be broken across your knee regardless of how strong the steel is. The metal must be heated to bonding temperatures in order to harden and temper the metal properly to promote strength in the blade. There's no way, we could know the nature of demon fangs, but I assume it's similar to steel. You can't forge a sword by compressing metal shards together. They MUST be melted down first. But this is an unimportant side debate.

dude, now youre just being ignorant. I know what this thread is about, bullshit and banter aside. This thread is Sesshomaru's swords, not Naraku and/or his incarnations.
Kijimbo didn't use essense to make the sword, he used teeth. If anyone gave "life" to Tokijin then you of all people, swordsman that you are, would know it was life breathed into it by the smith.

And for you to imply that I would think that metal shavings pushed together make up a sword...
:slap:
I was trying to use the whole tree analogy you guys were going with.
My point being that anything left of Goshenki would be ripped to shreds, like you will be next time you insult my intellegence.

Not everyone here is 14. Some of us are old enough to be your... babysitter -_-; We're so old we can buy beer, we just dont really wanna anymore.

You can present your ideas and information (stuff you would like to say about smithing) without feeling like you need to argue with someone else to get a point across. I wasn't going to draw you into a debate without giving you the chance to at least see the third movie (I'm not the 'push the blind guy down the stairs' kind of person. I'm nice), I used spoiler tags, but I think you were peekin. We can talk about limbs after ya watch the 3rd movie m'kay. Why not kill some time looking up the culture and religions of the waring states era.

I wasn't trying to insult anyone's intelligence. It is not an insult to not know something. You presented an apparent lack of knowledge in a given subject, so I offered mine with good intention. Take it any way you like or leave it. It makes no difference to me.

I don't know how old you are, but you talk as though you don't know how old I am either. I, too, am old enough to drink alcohol, but I choose not to and never have. A mature decision if there ever was one. I can assure you, I'm quite old enough to care for myself without a....babysitter. I speak to no person in such a way to imply inferiority, not even those who act the part. Again, not implying anything of any specific person.

This thread IS about Sesshomaru's swords, true enough. We are discussing what effect Naraku may have on one of them, making it a perfectly acceptable topic here. You and I do not have to agree on that.

If anyone gave "life" to Tokijin then you of all people, swordsman that you are, would know it was life breathed into it by the smith.

On the contrary! Being a swordsman, I have come to know that a smith is only as good as the matierials and tools he uses. A great smith with crappy materials makes crappy swords. There is no way around that, regardless of how great one's skill is. The purpose of the smith is to transform materials into wares.

:slap:
I was trying to use the whole tree analogy you guys were going with.
My point being that anything left of Goshenki would be ripped to shreds, like you will be next time you insult my intellegence.

...-_-; ...this is from someone old enough to be my babysitter?

As far as your analogy, it was not presented as an analogy. It was presented quite directly compared to the sword, which is why I was left with the implication I was. If I misunderstood, then I apologize, but there was no insult intended.

Debates don't have to heat up. Just chill a little bit and consider whether or not you're understanding me properly before you go off on someone. You are reading my text, but not hearing my voice. Bear with the limitations and calm down! Geez, if I were a lesser man, I'd be upset. ^_^:

You are still attacking me, you are still underestimating me and no I do not want nor have to be your babysitter.

You're no longer contributing to the thread, you are confronting people rather then just theories. People have shown you a level of respect that you have not returned.

I'm all for good and interisting ideas going back and forth, but you are inciting flames by pointing the finger with all of your you you you. You just don't understand.

We now return to worshiping Sesshomaru

http://www.windscar.com/gallery/data/media/12/Sesshomaru_sword.jpg

Awwwwwwwwwwwww kawaii :faint: ... I love the two red lines on his wrist and his cheeks ^_^. Great great look + that crescent moon !

*slobers on Double G's sig*

:notworth: he soooo cool :love:

First of all, my apologies to all for the obvious incident. It got a little more rigid than it should have in here. Truce has been called, therefore the incident shouldn't be brought up again. If everyone agrees, we can consider the debate concerning Tokijin and Naraku as "plausible." Who really knows how the writer will twist it. Keeping us guessing makes it more fun anyway.

Frankly, I like Tensiega better than Tokijin. I remember when Sesshomaru struck down Jaken with it and Jaken fell over for dead until Sesshomaru told him to get up. "Hey, I'm not dead....and my sinuses have cleared up!" Sorry, I couldn't resist. :P That was twisted but amusing. I never really cared much for Jaken, but Rin is the essence of cuteness! :D

A tad off-subject, but I bought a new sword today and soon will have another. Check my Yahoo profile (Tanoro20) for a pic of me holding one of my older ones.

Oh! I just thought of something. In the video game for PS2, Sesshomaru is shown with both swords, but he isn't missing an arm. It becomes so subtle in the series too that one hardly notices.

attached are two images.. sesshomaru attacking naraku with tokijin. i believe that energy blast is all sesshomaru, enhanced and empowered by the sword. you may also notice that the attack itself is incredibly similar to the wind scar. and after that attack, naraku is so crippled that he has to escape into the mountains.
nice screen grabs. I have noticed that w/ Tokijin Sesshomaru has 2 primary attacks. One is just like a straight shot of energy from out of the sword, the other is more kaze no kuzu in its damage structure. Either way, he is attacking with his demonic energy ;)

In the game, Sesshomaru's most powerful attack with Tokijin is referred to as "Dragon Strike." It hit multiple enemies with a lightning effect. It does almost max damage too. :)
:sword:

Thats the game.

Of course, but it's a nice piece of info and fun to watch. Sesshomaru is unbeatable on the game. No enemy can touch him.

There r all kinds of GREAT sesshomaru pictures:drool: :drool: on this website

:spam:

I normally wouldn't be interested in cosplay, but I'd cos Sesshomaru if the opportunity arose. I'd have to made two swords to carry. :D